In an earlier thread, Far Cry 2 was recommended, and there were suggestions for replacing my video card. Far Cry 2 runs, but leaves a lot to be desired running on my NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS.

See: (http://www.pcqanda.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=2&topic_id=495866&mesg_id=495866&listing_type=search#495991) See posts #27 and #29.

Suggested were:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130339

or NVidia 8600 GTS or better.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=NVidia+8600+GTS&x=10&y=33

The price on the 8600 GTS is attractive, but it will probably be outdated soon.

The GeForce 9800 GTX(G92) looks good, but I'm not crazy about the need for double bus spacing. I'm open to more suggestions.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=4850&x=22&y=28
That is comparable to a 9800GTX and is a single slot design.You should get decent framerates with this.

I would stay away from the ATI video cards if I were you. What good are frame rates with artifacts and shit drivers?

In fact, Far Cry 2 was developed on Nvidia hardware.

Quote:

Since we first began working on Far Cry 2 in early 2005, we have used GeForce GPU’s to develop the game and worked closely with NVIDIA’s excellent engineers. While Far Cry 2 represents an outstanding PC gaming experience for a wide range of systems, GeForce users can expect to enjoy the game quite literally ‘The Way It Was Meant To Be Played’.” - Louis-Pierre Pharand, Ubisoft, Far Cry 2 Producer

ATI does just fine in FarCry2 and I suspect the driver comment is in the poor Linux support over the years :7 .Nvidia has had some turkeys over the last year or so as well.

No actually, it's been their shitty drivers in Windows over the years that caused me to say that. I've worked on a lot of systems with ATI graphics. Not to mention the clean installs of Windows I've had to do for people. Also, artifacting, overheating, fan failing cards.

The current crop may be better, but I'll not take a chance again. I'll put my money on Nvidia for people's gaming.

Quote:

QUOTE:

In fact, Far Cry 2 was developed on Nvidia hardware.

Since we first began working on Far Cry 2 in early 2005, we have used GeForce GPU’s to develop the game and worked closely with NVIDIA’s excellent engineers. While Far Cry 2 represents an outstanding PC gaming experience for a wide range of systems, GeForce users can expect to enjoy the game quite literally ‘The Way It Was Meant To Be Played’.” - Louis-Pierre Pharand, Ubisoft, Far Cry 2 Producer

I don't know about "38%" but I did notice some improvements with the 181.22 beta. More like regressions fixed, mostly. It's certainly the best driver for me and my games, at this time. The thing is though, it varies between cards as to how well a driver works.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127328

This is a great deal. It might be worth giving up a slot.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130435

Here is a single slot design.

I absolutely would not get the 8600GTS. An easier way to tell what video card is best for you is to know the most you're willing to spend.

Then it's easy to pick the best card for the money.

What difference does that make? Do you have a PCI card installed right underneath the video card anyways? If so, move it. You probably have more PCI slots than you'll use.

You're absolutely right, Mike, I think I'll go for the GeForce 9800 GTX(G92). One reviewer commented that the hot air generated is blown directly out the back of the card. which sounds like a desirable feature. It's the highest price of the cards recommended, but in retrospect, I paid about $135.99 for the GeForce 7600 GS,... so it's all relative.

Edit: Just ordered it at $159.99 plus $8.97 shipping. Included free is Call of Duty valued at $49.99. Ironically, I have Call of Duty Deluxe Edition which I have never installed. :+

You'll be happy with that purchase it should be great in FarCry2.In lot of ways I agree with Grogan just that bang for buck cards have been ATI's forte lately.I own Nvidia 8800GT BTW.

That should be great. One thing though, I don't know if you realize it or not, but those cards need two 6 pin PCI-E power connectors. If your power supply is not equipped with them, you can use adapters that go from hard drive molex connectors. They are the same 12V. There may or may not be adapters in the video card box (I've seen them supplied with the card). Under Specs at newegg, under packaging it says that it comes with "power cable". That may imply that they give you one adapter.

You might want to verify and/or sort this out ahead of time before your card arrives. You can probably find a computer shop in your area that has those connectors. I know I have a few of them kicking around from installing video cards where they weren't needed.

Is this what you're referring to, Mike?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KMU0NU/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=2624615939&ref=pd_sl_1zn8di6ql8_b

The Newegg product description shows this as part of the package:

Yes, but you will require two of those connections to the card and it sounds like you'll only have one adapter in the box with the card. So, if your power supply doesn't have one (It might have one already) then you are going to need another one of those adapters.

My Antec power supply came with the following cables, and the two on the right seem to be what is required:

Oh excellent then, you're all set. You don't need any of those adapters then because your power supply already has the connections.

I was just making sure so that you aren't frustrated the day your card comes, being unable to install it.

I have an Antec power supply as well and it comes with all the stuff I'll ever need. My video card, 9800GX2, takes one 8 pin and one 6 pin PCI-E power connector.

Many thanks, Mike, for keeping tabs on this thread. You're one of the reasons that PCQandA is the best place to get relavent computer information. :7

Excellent choice! :clap:

Quote:

You don't need any of those adapters then because your power supply already has the connections.

Mike, the video card arrived a couple of hours ago. I opened it and found a six pin power connector with a Y connection to two molex connectors. I see only one six pin socket on the video card. Am I correct in that I can go directly from the power supply to the video card with single six pin power connector?

I knew it only had to have had one 6 pin connector. That's all I could see in the picture, and it isn't really a powerful enough of a card for two connectors.

But for some reason the specs say 2 x 6 pin.

On the side of the box is the following:

This graphics card requires:

Quote:

* 450 watt or greater power supply with a minimum of 24 amps on the +12 volt rail.

* PCI Express or PCI Express 2.0 compliant motherboard with one x16 graphics slot.

* Two 6-pin PCI Express power connectors or four available hard disk power connectors.

* Windows Vista/XP

It does clearly state Two 6-pin PCI Express power connectors, but I don't see where they connect.

If you look at the photo (my apologies for a hand held close-up} you will see that the connector on the left has four contact points while the one on the right has six. The lable attached to the six contact connector is PCI-E. So,... the connector on the left goes to the power supply and the one on the right goes to the video card. Right?

What the hell? Now this link shows a video card with 2 connections. Just an hour and a half ago it didn't and it didn't the other day either. It was one connection.

Newegg is messing with links again or I need to go to bed.


Anyways, the end that says PCI-E should go in your card.

Make sure you got what you bought.

Edit:

Before links and pictures change again, this is what 2 connectors looks like:

I will have to call NewEgg to find out whether I received what I ordered. The box identifies it as GeForce 9800 GTX. but it definitely has only one six pin PCI socket.

You got what you ordered... see my post below. Some models have two power connectors, it's up to the manufacturer.

Install it and get your ass down to Africa and start fiendishly murdering mercenaries and their puppet masters.

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Install it and get your ass down to Africa and start fiendishly murdering mercenaries and their puppet masters.

That is fun! And now Bobbo can enjoy all the beautifulness of it.

I liked it so much, I bought the original Far Cry last week. I had never played it before. Wow, for an old game (2004) is that ever nice. Years ahead of its time. Of course on modern hardware you can crank up the graphics settings and still get hundreds of FPS. With the render setting "cold", it looks the best (most realistic shader effects). I can imagine the poor sods in 2004 trying to play that game with Nvidia 5000 series cards and the like... kind of like when Crysis first came out lol

Not as extensive as Far Cry 2 (only took me 4 or 5 nights to finish it) but it was a lot of fun. Best $10 ($9.95 from Direct2Drive) I ever spent and it's got high replay value. It was, however, too hard in some spots. I had to enable some cheats. Especially at the end, the "Volcano" chapter.

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Not as extensive as Far Cry 2 (only took me 4 or 5 nights to finish it) but it was a lot of fun. Best $10 ($9.95 from Direct2Drive) I ever spent and it's got high replay value. It was, however, too hard in some spots. I had to enable some cheats. Especially at the end, the "Volcano" chapter.

Don't be a wimp. Play it at the hardest level without the cheats. I've played it that way a dozen times,.. it's hard, but it can be done.

No time for that. I've got lots of other games and not enough time to play them. I don't like games to be too difficult, it's about relaxing and enjoying some nice scenery and weaponry. It's not about being a wimp... I have nothing to prove to myself or anybody else.

There's enough aggravation in life that leisure activities aren't going to aggravate me.

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There's enough aggravation in life that leisure activities aren't going to aggravate me.

Too true! BTW, Just joking about the wimp thing. :P The game can be played a lot of different ways, which makes it a lot of fun for replaying.

Very true. Hope you like FC2. I haven't had time to play it since I got Fallout 3.

My 9800GT 1G runs the game just fine with maxed graphics.

I would imagine so but don't worry if not you won't hurt it you will just get a warning about running in reduced power mode.

If there were two power connectors on the card, they would be right beside each other in plain view. Yours probably only has one.

The confusion is that some (usually overclocked) models of 9800GTX have two. It depends on the manufacturer. (Nvidia only makes the chips and reference design)

I still have a bone of contention, i.e. the current NewEgg item offers free shipping, whereas they charged me $8.97

Quote:

Item List:
Item Description Quantity Unit Price Extended Price
00-999-088 GIFT NVIDIA COD - WORLD AT WAR % 1 $49.99
14-130-339 VGA EVGA 512-P3-N871-AR 9800GTX RT 1 $159.99
For Tech Support 888/881-EVGA (3842)
COM DISCOUNT FOR AUTOADD #200 1 ($49.99)

Payment Summary:
Payment Term: PaypalSubtotal: $159.99Tax: $0.00
Shipping and Handling: $8.97
Total Amount: $168.96

Isn't that life? Newegg prices change like a stock market ticker.

Do you have a copy of your order?
(I make copies before/when I "submit" using FSCapture - screen capture.)

With Neweggs free shipping you may have to specifically downgrade from their standard shipping to the free shipping method.

If the ad copy (or webpage - I make copies of those too with FSCapture) shows free shipping, but you did not receive it, let them know. I'd expect them to refund it.


But, in post #7 above, you said ...

Quote:

Edit: Just ordered it at $159.99 plus $8.97 shipping.

Quote:

But, in post #7 above, you said ...
Quote:
Edit: Just ordered it at $159.99 plus $8.97 shipping.

Yep, that's the case. I did accept the order as is. I'm just miffed that, after I ordered, they offered free shipping. Just bad timing.

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The confusion is that some (usually overclocked) models of 9800GTX have two. It depends on the manufacturer. (Nvidia only makes the chips and reference design)

I don't understand the technology of it. If one card has two power connectors and the other has only one, is the one with the single power connector underpowered?

No, they just add a second connector to overclocked cards for assurance. It doesn't mean they are underpowered. The cards don't really need it and the reference design doesn't require it.

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The cards don't really need it and the reference design doesn't require it.

That's reassuring. Thanks again for your informative input. I will install the card as soon as some additional memory arrives from Crucial. That way I only have to open the box once.

You need more than 3GB of RAM?

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You need more than 3GB of RAM?

Probably not, but it could come in handy for BOINC crunching and other memory hungry aps and perhaps for the upcoming new Windows OS.
Edit: I should add that it frees up a couple of 512s that I can put into a recent upgrade to bring it to 2 GB.

Actually no, it won't come in handy at all if you're running 32 bit Windows. You'd be lucky to have 3.5 gigs available (possibly less, depending on how much address space your hardware needs). That won't benefit Windows XP at all.

When I installed my 9800 GX2 card (dual GPU, each with 512M) Vista pulled even more memory out of the pool. So I've got 4 gigs of RAM, with only 3.3 available when I boot to Vista32.

Does 4 gigs or more really matter at all? With any OS? I have 64 bit Vista, with 4GB installed and I'm never using it all. I always have plenty cached.

I msconfig my machine down to nothing when I switch to gaming mode and still, a game like Crysis barely uses more than 1 GB of RAM.

The more the merrier for caching. I work with large files a lot, and Linux does block level caching (so the whole file doesn't necessarily have to fit in cache for it to be of benefit)

In Windows, I could stand more cache for playing games, so stuff doesn't have to be read from disk again.

So did you get this card installed and rip those bastards in Africa a new one? :-)

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So did you get this card installed and rip those bastards in Africa a new one?

Not yet, but I've been ripping new ones using my old card. Not the best images at 800 x 600, but not bad either.
I'm waiting for the memory I'm advised that I don't need, so that I only have to open my box once. The memory should be arriving today. My computer is in an armoire that makes it a real pain to do computer maintenance.

Memory just came in, but it was PC2700 instead of PC3200. Rather than reorder and return the memory, I'm going to put it into the rebuild I have been working on. I'll stick with the 3 GB I have in my main computer, since I've been advised that I don't need more than that.

They are right you won't need more than that unless you manipulate large files,encode video etc all at the same time.Game away you will love the higher resolution and better framrates you are losing a lot at 800x600 (ewww).

Yes, that's a pain. Worse when the wires and cables aren't long enough to pull the tower out. I've been known to say "If you want me to work on that, YOU get it out of there" :-)

There's one house where their "computer desk" is so bad, it's like a puzzle to get the wires all connected. It actually is painful for me (I pay for it later) because it involves long periods of fishing in awkward positions. I did it once. ONCE. The only person who can quickly do it is their son who put in in there in the first place. He's agile, and has smaller hands and skinny arms. So, whenever I pick up their computer rather than work on software in place, I insist that sonny boy is home to have it unhooked for me when I get there, and home to hook it up when I bring it back.

My own computer is sitting right up on my desk. I leave the screws out and just use the snaps on the covers so I can get into my case instantly.

Bummer!! I installed the new card, and it was dead in the water. It may be that my computer isn't capable of running this card, but once installed, the fans started spinning and then after a couple of seconds, the machine shut down. ;( I tried the power connector that came with my power supply as well as the one supplied with the card. No go! It's Saturday, so I don't know whether I can talk to someone at Egghead today or not, but I'm going to need an RMA. I think I have 30 days to return it.
Replaced the card I have been using and the computer boots normally.

Any thoughts on why the computer won't power up with this card?

It is supposed to work. The PCI Express specification is supposed to be backwards compatible. However, if a chipset doesn't adhere to the spec properly things like this can happen.

However, my NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS is also PCI-E, and it works OK. Do you suppose the power requirements for the 9800 GTX are greater than for the 7600 GS, causing the computer to fail to boot? I guess I need to talk to NewEgg and see what they recommend, i.e. replacement or refund.

Your power supply should have no problems running that card. Have you tried it a second time? Maybe it just needs to be reseated.

If it still doesn't work, I'd say it's the card. Just get a replacement.

Your chipset has early PCI Express 1.0. The card is for PCI Express 2.0. PCI Express is supposed to be backwards compatible, such that later spec cards are supposed to work in PCI-E 1.x systems. This is not always the case. I have heard of this happening but have not seen it with my own eyes.

It won't be the power requirements, you have a good power supply.

It is indeed possible that the card is defective though.

Also, yes, I was assuming it was seated correctly. It's pretty hard not to with those double width cards that take up two mounting spots. They are somewhat self guiding and there's very little play. Do try it again though.

P.S. Got the latest bios for your motherboard?

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They are somewhat self guiding and there's very little play. Do try it again though.

I'm pretty sure that it was well seated. I installed it twice with the same result. Also, the old card went in and ran without a problem.
I won't be able to contact Newegg til Monday anyway, so I might give it one more shot. Maybe the third time is a charm. :P

Don't waste your time... you had it seated right, especially if you tried it twice. It's pretty hard to seat one of those beastly cards incorrectly.

My thoughts exactly, Mike. When I talk with Newegg, do you recommend going for the same card as replacement or just take a refund? They mention a 15% restocking fee on RMA refunds. The model they are now showing is the one with two 6 pin PCIe connectors, whereas mine only has one as mentioned earlier in this thread.

Edit: The card they are now showing states on the box 1.0/2.0, whereas, as you mentioned, mine shows only 2.0.

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QUOTE:Edit: The card they are now showing states on the box 1.0/2.0, whereas, as you mentioned, mine shows only 2.0.

Go for that one then. I do suspect that may be the problem.

Quote:

The card they are now showing states on the box 1.0/2.0, whereas, as you mentioned, mine shows only 2.0.

This is no longer the case. The picture(s) only show the 2.0 again. I contacted Newegg and, after describing my experience, they said that they would issue a full refund with no restocking fee. The sales rep suggested waiting 72 hours before reordering, as I might just receive the same card again. I spoke to a sales person at a local computer store who suggested that my 500W Antec PS might not be powerful enough to run the card. I'm going to wait until I see a card that is PCIe 2.0/1.0 again before attempting a purchase.

A weak PSU wouldn't cause the problem you're having.

See, a 500W Antec power supply really will do what it's rated for. I doubt that's the problem. It would have to be pretty damned inadequate to cause the type of behaviour you are having. If it was a little inadequate, the symptoms might range from artifacts in games, to the driver dropping the card down to a reduced functionality mode.

It's only a single GPU card, and the specs call for a minimum 450W power supply.

Now this one looks like the one that I thought I had ordered:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130403

I'll wait for my refund to clear and then will look into ordering it.
What do you think? If it doesn't work, I'll have to find something that is compatible with my MB.

PCI Express 2.0 x16

It sort of looks like the one that was 2.0/1.0, but I could be mistaken.

I was looking at the specs that Newegg listed, not the pictures.

I just ordered this one from Tiger Direct (I know, beware of the Tiger, but I haven't been burned yet.):
http://www.tigerdirect.com:80/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3738445&SRCCODE=WEBLET03ORDER&cm_mmc=Email-_-WebletMain-_-WEBLET03ORDER-_-Deals

It's now listed as unavailable, but my order has been confirmed. Note that it's 1.0/2.0. Here's hoping it will work in my system.

The card you had worked with 1.0 boards.


What's the motherboard?

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The card you had worked with 1.0 boards.

Right! That's why I selected this card. It was suggested elsewhere in this thread that some cards are backwards compatible, but the first one didn't work at all.

Motherboard?

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Motherboard?

Asus A8N5X

That looks like the same card, but with two 6 pin PCI-E power connections. Yes, let's hope that it works. It does say PCI-E 1.0/2.0 so it may have something different that makes it more compatible.

However, it's all supposed to work. PCI-E 2.0 x16 cards are supposed to work in PCI-E 1.0 x16. I have heard there can be problems with the earlier PCI-E 1.0 chipsets, though. They say you need a chipset that adheres to the PCI-E 1.1 revision of the spec to be assured of compatibility.

Here's what ass-us has to say about it:

http://support.asus.com/faq/faq.aspx?no=DE05A01F-3A3B-A859-177B-6A668A2D6982&SLanguage=en-us

Quote:

This motherboard comes with the support of different PCI express specification on different PCI express slots.
The PCIEX16_1 slot has been designed based on PCI express 1.1 specification, while PCIEX16_2 slots adopts PCI express 1.0/1.0a specification.
As PCI express 1.0/1.0a standard is not compatible with PCI express 2.0 specification, installing PCI express 2.0 cards onto PCIEX16_2 slot will result in system fail to detect expension cards installed on both PCIEX16_1 and PCIEX16_2 slot.

Note: The above limitation does not apply when installing PCI express 2.0 cards onto PCIEX16_1 slot, as PCI express 2.0 is backward compatible with PCI express 1.1 standard.

Note2: Some PCI Express 2.0 VGA cards (e.g. VGA cards based on ATI Radeon 3XXX series GPU) comes with the support of automatic down mode capability are also not effected.

I have a P965 chipset, which has PCI-E 1.1a. Supposedly it has the same number of lanes and bandwidth as PCI-E 2.0. It was before the PCI-E 2.0 spec was final. Utilities like GPU-Z identify it as PCI-E 2.0

Thanks Mike, that information tells me that the new card might or might not work, although it IS kind of encouraging. Based on the ass-us blurb, the previous card should have worked. :rolleyes: I'll know soon enough, as Tiger D just sent an email confirming shipment.

The reason I posted it is:

a) Asus acknowledging that there may be a problem with PCI-E 2.0 cards on PCI-E 1.0/1.0a, at least on some of their boards. (That's the way that I would read such an admission)
b) That some cards indeed do have the capability to fall back to a PCI-E 1.0 bus mode and since yours is advertised as 1.0/2.0 it may work.

Thanks Mike, that really is useful information. I'll definitely report back when/if it is working.

My package From Tiger Direct just arrived, and it's the SAME Fing model that I received from Newegg that caused my computer to fail to boot. Tiger just gave me an RMA # and it goes back to them first thing tomorrow. I'm still in the market for a video card that will run Far Cry 2.

I take it you had the same problem as before?


It even had one 6 pin power connection? Instead of 2?


Edit:

They are both the same, they're both the 512-P3-N871-AR.

Quote:

I take it you had the same problem as before?


It even had one 6 pin power connection? Instead of 2?

I haven't tried installing it yet. I will give it one more shot before I RMA it back to Tiger Direct. It's possible that the first card was defective,... but I doubt that.

Speaking with EVGA tech support, they advised that the card requires a power supply that will deliver 28 AMPS at 450 Watts. The techie also suggested that if this card doesn't work, to try a 9800 GT which has lower power requirements.

Quote:

I will give it one more shot before I RMA it back to Tiger Direct.

One more shot? You haven't given it a shot yet.


Got any other power supplies? Or is this one the most powerful you have?

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Got any other power supplies? Or is this one the most powerful you have?

This is what I've got: It's an Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-500 500W ATX12V SLI.

What's your exact model of Antec Power supply so I can look it up? I'd be surprised if that was the problem.

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What's your exact model of Antec Power supply

It's an Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-500 500W ATX12V SLI

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103937

Unless it's malfunctioning, or not operating as advertised, it should do the trick. You've got dual +12V rails (+12V1@17A, +12V2@19A)

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You've got dual +12V rails (+12V1@17A, +12V2@19A)

Speaking with EVGA tech support, they advised that the card requires a power supply that will deliver 28 AMPS at 450 Watts. Looking at your response, is that sufficient AMPS?

Yes, that's what I meant. However, that's a pretty vague answer from EVGA. 28A... I assume they mean with +12V. Video card power requirements are usually combined +12V ratings.

Remember, this is just a single GPU video card. It doesn't need a Chernobyl reactor.

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Remember, this is just a single GPU video card. It doesn't need a Chernobyl reactor.

Understood, Mike. :lol:
After my experience with the identical card from NewEgg, (computer wouldn't boot after card installation) I decided to just send this one back to Tiger. I may go for a 9800 GT some time in the future, but in retrospect, I can play Far Cry 2 with my existing card, and the images look really good with it, and at 600 x 800 and the action is quite smooth.
Apologies for drawing this thread out so long with no real solution.

Now we will never know if it's your system or the previous card was bad. x(

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Now we will never know if it's your system or the previous card was bad.

I understand your x( , ablib. I'm disappointed also, but I didn't want to take a chance on causing damage to a Tiger product. As it is, I will probably have to suffer a 15% restocking fee along with shipping charges I had to pay to return the card. I'm fairly sure that the first card from NewEgg was probably not defective,... but now we'll never know, will we? :blusher:

:

Not exactly the same, although the same model number. This is what I ordered: (Note that it's 1.0/2.0 with two power connectors). In any event, I'll install it tomorrow and if it works, I'll keep it; if not, it goes back and I'll try the 9800GT.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3738445&SRCCODE=WEBLET03ORDER&cm_mmc=Email-_-WebletMain-_-WEBLET03ORDER-_-Deals

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This is what I ordered: (Note that it's 1.0/2.0 with two power connectors)

And the one you ordered from Newegg was also compatible with 1.0, and at some point the pictures also showed 2 power connectors.


I don't know why the packaging and pictures are different, but the model numbers are the same, so...


Maybe it has something to do with what Grogan explained earlier about...something (I forgot it's somewhere in this thread I think).

#71.

I was thinking about #22 and #24.