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Subject: "OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape" Previous topic | Next topic
jasonlevineThu Dec-13-01 09:45 PM
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"OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"


  

          

Check on CNN.com for a clip of it. I haven't had the chance to watch it, but some of the excerpts of Bin Laden are chilling:

Bin Laden, at one point, explains: "We calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of all.

"Due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This is all that we had hoped for," bin Laden says.


I don't see how anyone can doubt Bin Laden was responsible for the WTC attacks after this.

- Jason Levine
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RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape
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AlThu Dec-13-01 10:03 PM
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#1. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 0)


  

          

Transcript available here: http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2001/US/12/13/transcript/binladentape.pdf



  

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jasonlevineThu Dec-13-01 10:32 PM
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#4. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Al (Reply # 1)


  

          

Thanks for the link Al. I didn't see that.

From the transcript: UBL: He did not know about the operation. Not everybody knew (...inaudible...). Muhammad ((Atta)) from the Egyptian family (meaning the Al Qa'ida Egyptian Group), was in charge of the group.

So Bin Laden just confessed that Atta, who was a higher-up in Al Qa'ida, was in charge of the operation and that he knew about it before it occured. Proof positive straight from the horse's mouth... or would it be the other end of the horse.

- Jason Levine
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VarthlokkurThu Dec-13-01 10:05 PM
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#2. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 0)


          

Yeah, I read the text also. I wonder what the non believers will say. Scary how they keep on saying how joyous everyone was.

  

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TuffThu Dec-13-01 10:19 PM
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#3. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 0)


          

It sure shows to all just how sick their minds really are,and to think they really believe it is even worse.I just hope the World unites,and rids us of all the terrorists wherever they may be.Tuff









  

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scaramoucheThu Dec-13-01 10:36 PM
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#5. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Tuff (Reply # 3)


  

          

Was there ever any doubt about the evil that lurks in the minds of men/women. the chilling part is how they can influence the thinking and mindset of people. No matter the evidence there will always be a hardcore group that believe the US deserve it and that Osama... was innocent.

I would rank him in the category of Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Castro the mass murderers of modern times.

Guns don't kill people. Husbands who come home early kill people.

  

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jasonlevineThu Dec-13-01 10:39 PM
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#6. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Tuff (Reply # 3)


  

          

I think the writers at Marvel put it best in their Spiderman issue dealing with the WTC disaster:

Only madmen could contain the thought. Execute the act. Fly the planes. The sane world will always be vunerable to madmen. Because we cannot go where they go to conceive of such things.

(Yes, I know the idea of a comic book dealing with this seems in really bad taste, but they managed to pull it off. There's one point where Spiderman finds a kid sitting in the rubble waiting for his father who just headed back "for a minute." Before he can say anything else, the firemen walk by carrying his father's lifeless body. When the kid sees this and cries out for his father, it gets me every time. :'( )

- Jason Levine
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NytOwlFri Dec-14-01 04:54 AM
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#8. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 6)


          

>Only madmen could contain the thought. Execute the act.<

"Madmen"?
Definitely, the tape made public today removes any doubt about that.
Anyone who gets pleasure from the tradgedy of Sept. 11 is terminally psycho.
To understand these demented monsters, you have to have a basic understanding of what they believe in.
It's called Wahhabism.

Here's the best quick study I've found for anyone that's interested.
------------------
Wahhabism:
For more than two centuries, Wahhabism has been Saudi Arabia's dominant faith. It is an austere form of Islam that insists on a literal interpretation of the Koran. Strict Wahhabis believe that all those who don't practice their form of Islam are heathens and enemies. Critics say that Wahhabism's rigidity has led it to misinterpret and distort Islam, pointing to extremists such as Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. Wahhabism's explosive growth began in the 1970s when Saudi charities started funding Wahhabi schools (madrassas) and mosques from Islamabad to Culver City, California. Here are excerpts from FRONTLINE's interviews with Mai Yamani, an anthropologist who studies Saudi society; Vali Nasr, an authority on Islamic fundamentalism; Maher Hathout, spokesperson for the Islamic Center of Southern California; and Ahmed Ali, a Shi'a Muslim from Saudi Arabia. (Also see the Links and Readings section of this site for more analyses of Wahhabism and Saudi Arabia.)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/wahhabism.html
------------------

NytOwl

  

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GreyFalconFri Dec-14-01 05:36 PM
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#16. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to NytOwl (Reply # 8)


          

Is everybody ready to park their SUV's? This won't end until we deal with Saudi Arabia.

  

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jasonlevineFri Dec-14-01 06:57 PM
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#18. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to GreyFalcon (Reply # 16)


  

          

I'd be ready to. When I'm ready to buy a car next, I'm going to look into the Toyota Prius. It's a gas/electric hybrid that gets 50mpg. The Honda Insight gets more mpg, but doesn't look as nice. Hopefully other automakers will make gas/electric hybrids and I'll have a nice selection to choose from.

- Jason Levine
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NytOwlSat Dec-15-01 07:00 AM
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#25. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to GreyFalcon (Reply # 16)


          

I wish it wasn't so, but sooner or later the can of worms labeled Saudi Arabia will have to be opened.

NytOwl

  

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ryan auclairFri Dec-14-01 03:28 AM

  
#7. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 0)


          

not like we needed that tape to know it's him but now we are 100% sure. When the get him, the should drop him off a helicopter ...in the ruble. If all the people died there, he might as well too.}>


Ryan

  

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ShellyFri Dec-14-01 06:04 AM
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#9. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 0)


  

          

Far, far more incriminating than I ever expected.

Shelly

  

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Crazy_BabyFri Dec-14-01 09:03 AM
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#10. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 0)


  

          

Hello all. Recieved an interesting e-mail today from my sister about a marine over there and his take on the situation. Thought it might be an interesting side note to this thread.

Subject: A RECON MARINE IN AFGHANISTAN SPEAKS

The following was read on the Sully and Scooter (Radio KOGO in San
Diego)Show on Nov. 17:
Just outside of Ab Gach, in the northwest panhandle of Afghanistan
between
Tajikstan and Pakistan, November 11, 2001.
- -
Bizarre, It's (expletive) freezing here. I'm sitting on hard, cold dirt
between rocks and shrubs at the base of the Hindu Kush mountains along
the
Dar 'yoi Pomir River watching a hole that leads to a tunnel that leads
to a
cave. Stake out, my friend, and no pizza delivery for thousands of
miles.

I also glance at the area around my ass every ten to fifteen seconds to
avoid another scorpion sting. I've actually given up battling the
chiggers
and sand fleas, but them (expletive) scorpions give a jolt like a cattle
prod. Hurts like a bastard. The antidote tastes like transmission fluid
but
God bless the Marine Corps for the five vials of it in my pack.

The one truth the Taliban cannot escape is that, believe it or not, they
are
human beings, which means they have to eat food and drink water. That
requires couriers and that's where an old bounty hunter like me comes in
handy. I track he couriers, locate the tunnel entrances and storage
facilities, type the info into the handheld, shoot the coordinates up to
the
satellite link that tells the air commanders where to drop the hardware,
we
bash some heads for a while, then I track and record the new movement.
It's
all about intelligence.

We haven't even brought in the snipers yet. These scurrying rats have
no
idea what they're in for. We are but days away from cutting off supply
lines and allowing the eradication to begin. I've said it before and
I'll
say it again: This country blows, man. It's not even a
country. There are no roads, there's no infrastructure, there's no
government. This is an inhospitable, rockpit (expletive) ruled by
eleventh
century warring tribes. There are no jobs here like we know jobs.

Afghanistan offers two ways for a man to support his family: join the
opium
trade or join the army. That's it. Those are your options. Oh, I
forgot,
you can also live in a refugee camp and eat plum-sweetened, crushed
beetle
paste and squirt mud like a goose with stomach flu if that's your idea
of a
party. But the smell alone of those "tent cities of the walking dead"
is
enough to hurl you into the poppy fields to cheerfully scrape bulbs for
eighteen hours a day.

And let me tell you something else. I've been living with these Tajiks
and
Uzbeks and Turkmen and even a couple of Pushtins for over a month and a
half
now and this much I can say for sure: These guys, all of em, are Huns.
Actual, living Huns. They LIVE to fight. Its what they do. Its ALL
they
do. They have no respect for anything, not for their families or for
each
other or for themselves. They claw at one another as a way of
life. They play polo with dead calves and force their five-year-old
sons
into human cockfights to defend the family honor.

Huns, roaming packs of savage, heartless beasts who feed on each other's
barbarism. (Expletive) cavemen with AK 47's.

Then again, maybe I'm just cranky. I'm freezing my (expletive) off on
this
stupid (expletive) hill because my lap warmer is running out of juice
and I
can't recharge it until the sun comes up in a few hours.

Oh yeah! You like to write letters, right? Do me a favor, Bizarre.
Write
a letter to CNN and tell Judy and Bernie and that awful, sneering,
pompous
Aaron Brown to stop calling the Taliban "smart." They are not smart. I
suggest CNN invest in a dictionary because the word they are looking for
is
"cunning." The Taliban are cunning, like jackals and hyenas and
wolverines.
They are sneaky and ruthless and, when confronted, cowardly. They are
hateful, malevolent parasites who create nothing and destroy everything
else.

Smart.

Pfft.

Yeah, they're real smart.

They've spent their entire lives reading only one book (and not a very
good
one, as books go) and consider hygiene and indoor plumbing to be
products of
the devil. They're still figuring out how to work a Bic lighter.
Talking
to a Taliban warrior about improving his quality of life is like trying
to
teach an ape how to hold a pen; eventually he just gets
frustrated and sticks you in the eye with it. OK, enough.

Snuffle will be up soon so I have to get back to my hole. Covering my
tracks in the snow takes a lot of practice but I'm getting good at it.

Please tell my fellow Americans to turn off their TV sets and move on
with
their lives. The story line you are getting from CNN is utter
(expletive)
and designed not to deliver truth but rather to keep you glued to the
screen
through the commercials.

We've got this one under control.

The worst thing you guys can do right now is sit around analyzing what
we're
doing over here because you have no idea what we're doing and, really,
you
don't want to know. We are your military and we are doing what you sent
us
here to do. You wanna help? Buy some (expletive) stocks, America.

Saucy Jack, USMC

What do you think of that

Stranger than life

  

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jkylerFri Dec-14-01 09:12 AM
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#11. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Crazy_Baby (Reply # 10)


  

          

Sorry, see here: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/freezing.htm , apparently, another urban legend. JKS

TANSTAAFL]/font]


TANSTAAFL]/font]

  

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Crazy_BabyFri Dec-14-01 09:16 AM
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#12. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jkyler (Reply # 11)


  

          

Do I feel like an idiot. Sorry guys.:'(

Stranger than life

  

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jkylerFri Dec-14-01 09:23 AM
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#13. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Crazy_Baby (Reply # 12)


  

          

No offense intended, no harm, no foul . I just tend to check these type of things automatically at Snopes. JKS

TANSTAAFL]/font]


TANSTAAFL]/font]

  

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Crazy_BabyFri Dec-14-01 09:36 AM
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#14. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jkyler (Reply # 13)
Fri Dec-14-01 09:37 AM

  

          

Thanks jk. I hate to waste space and will watch myself more closely next time. Am still new to this place and it is good to have people like you to keep me in line. I just hope they get these fools and make them pay hard.

Stranger than life

  

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AlFri Dec-14-01 10:10 AM
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#15. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Crazy_Baby (Reply # 10)


  

          

Although the sentiments are positive, NO member of the military in the position desribed would write such a letter. OPerational SECurity.



  

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garbruFri Dec-14-01 05:59 PM
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#17. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Al (Reply # 15)
Fri Dec-14-01 06:02 PM

  

          

As far as Bin Laden Tapes go. I cant wait to see the tape of our marines carrying out the coffin that contains his lifeless body.


  

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jasonlevineFri Dec-14-01 07:00 PM
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#19. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to garbru (Reply # 17)


  

          

Who said there'll be enough left to fill a coffin? }>

- Jason Levine
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garbruSat Dec-15-01 06:35 AM
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#23. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 19)


  

          

good point
If I could have it my way, I would really like to see a body so We can definately confirm that it is him and that he is no longer a part of this world. I wouldnt want to see them blow a building up and just assume he was in there. I want to KNOW that he is gone.

  

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WakkoFri Dec-14-01 10:13 PM
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#20. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 0)
Fri Dec-14-01 10:15 PM

  

          

The only thing that bothers me about this ordeal is that they've had this tape in hand for how long now? and we are just getting around to seeing it.

Believe me I want to believe everything said and translated is true, but I can't help but wonder what was doctored for our point of view, and to influence the masses.

"Tell me and I'll forget. Show me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll learn."

  

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jasonlevineFri Dec-14-01 10:17 PM
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#21. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Wakko (Reply # 20)


  

          

I don't think it was doctored, but I do think they looked it over to make sure they wouldn't be releasing any OBL propaganda or hidden signals to terrorists-in-hiding. Plus apparently, the translation took time because of the poor audio quality of the tape.

- Jason Levine
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AlSat Dec-15-01 06:16 AM
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#22. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 21)


  

          

Not to mention that they had two seperate people do translation and then compared and worked out the differences. Also, the Intelligence Agencies will have carefully checked this for clues to Bin Laden's wearabouts prior to it going to any translator. And finally, we haven't had the tape all that long.



  

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ShellySat Dec-15-01 06:41 AM
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#24. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Al (Reply # 22)


  

          

There are idiots walking around who think we didn't go to the moon, and the holocaust didn't happen. If you expect everyone to be rational, you're doomed to be disappointed.

Shelly

  

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CoolKidSat Dec-15-01 09:57 AM
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#26. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 0)
Sat Dec-15-01 10:01 AM

  

          

Let me see if I understand this situation well enough. . .

Had the plane crashed in a horizontal position, the fall of the World Trade Center buildings would have been much delayed. As wise and strategic-minded as he is, Bin Laden planned that the plane be tilted as it hit the building, so as to damage more floors. The wings which carried the plane's fuel and the engines would hit the other floors and explode in flames, and as you quoted Jason, this will then cause the iron foundations to melt and weaken the structure of the building.

Edit:

Question: Did the people in the other floors hear or feel the explosion loud enough for them to assume that an accident has occurred and the premises must be evacuated immediately? It seems that since a lot of people died, a lot of people could've not been aware that there was an explosion. Is there any truth to this?

It is understandable that the people on the higher floors couldn't evacuate because of the damaged floors below them, but how about the people on the lower floors? Where they able to evacuate quick enough? Why or why not?

Thanks a lot!


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AlSat Dec-15-01 10:11 AM
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#27. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to CoolKid (Reply # 26)


  

          

Coolkid,

The position of the aircraft crash had nothing to do with the amount of time for the building to collapse. The amount of aviation fuel had everything to do with it.

As for your other questions: A lot of people died trying to evacuate other people. There just wasn't enough time.



  

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CoolKidSat Dec-15-01 10:23 AM
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#28. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Al (Reply # 27)


  

          

Ok thanks a lot Al. c",)


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ShellySat Dec-15-01 10:26 AM
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#29. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to CoolKid (Reply # 26)


  

          

Ever try to climb down 80 flights of stairs filled with 5000 other people all desperate to get out? Perhaps you can imagine it.

Melting the foundation did not occur before the collapse and was not necessary to bring down the buildings. They were curtain wall structures without a central core. The outside skin of the buildings was hung on an outer steel framework. Once any major part of that outer framework was melted out, the frame could not remain rigid and the weight of the structure alone could collapse it.

Shelly

  

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AlSat Dec-15-01 10:41 AM
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#30. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 29)


  

          

Shelly,

The WTC towers did have a central core. They were among the more expensive buildings ever built because of it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1540000/1540044.stm




  

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ShellySat Dec-15-01 10:27 PM
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#33. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Al (Reply # 30)


  

          

A according to interviews with the architect of the buildings that I saw (may not have been shown where you are), the buildings did not have a central core, and when I was in them I saw no evidence of a core, every floor was wide open, they were designed for maximum leasable space. He also said that the design specifications of the towers were to withstand a major fire for only about an hour, which is exactly what happened.

That kind of damage could have never occurred in the empire State Building, which As you know, is a masonry structure with a central load bearing air shaft.

Shelly

  

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AlSun Dec-16-01 06:04 AM
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#34. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 33)


  

          

I'm sure that the WTC followed the design illustrated in the BBC article. The Central Core was where the elevator and power shafts were. Everything I've seen indicates the towers actually exceeded their design specifications in how well they handled both impact and fire.

The Empire State Building would not have reacted the same, true. But it would probably have come down as well. More likely toppled than collapsed.



  

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NytOwlSat Dec-15-01 11:04 AM
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#31. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 29)


          

This confusion about the foundation melting got started in post 26 where the original text was misquoted and structure became foundation.

Original text:
the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only.

NytOwl

  

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CoolKidSat Dec-15-01 12:34 PM
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#32. "RE: OT - They relased that Bin Laden tape"
In response to NytOwl (Reply # 31)


  

          

Yep, that'd be me.

Hehe. My apologies.


P o w e r e d -by- T e c h n o l o g y

Intel PIII 1Ghz Processor
ASUS CUSL2-C i815EP Mobo
256mb Kingmax PC150 SDRAM
Le

  

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