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Subject: "Pilot "Hoot" Gibson forced to retire" Previous topic | Next topic
_Chewy_Mon Oct-30-06 11:14 PM
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"Pilot "Hoot" Gibson forced to retire"
Mon Oct-30-06 11:17 PM by _Chewy_

  

          

Robert Gibson, better known as "Hoot" among his peers was forced to retire today. He flew on 5 Space Shuttle missions and was the commander on 3 of those flights. He's logged an incredible number of hours both in the air and in space. He's even in the Astronaut Hall of Fame.

When he retired from NASA, he flew as a commercial airline pilot at Southwest Airlines. Today he was forced to retire because there is a age limit imposed by the FAA that dates back to 1957. Is this fair? Should pilots with notable & distinguished service like "Hoot" be forced to retire because of some outdated law? If the pilot's health is good, why do we need an outdated law to mandate/ enforce him or her to retire so early when they still have many years of work life? On the other hand, I can understand the reasoning for such a law because airline pilots hold the safety of millions of passengers in their own hands. But 60 does seem a bit too "early".

  

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ablibMon Oct-30-06 11:18 PM
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#1. "RE: Pilot "Hoot" Gibson forced to retire"
In response to _Chewy_ (Reply # 0)


  

          

No it's not too early! He's being forced to retire from commercial flying. He can fly his own planes all he wants.


I only wish states would adopt similar laws when it comes to driving.

Visit the Basement

  

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ShellyTue Oct-31-06 02:13 AM
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#3. "RE: Pilot "Hoot" Gibson forced to retire"
In response to ablib (Reply # 1)
Tue Oct-31-06 02:16 AM by Shelly

  

          

On the other hand I would like to see anyone under 30 barred from driving. I'm a lot older than Hoot, I have never had an accident driving, and have a very low insurance rate as a result.

Maybe now you can see how silly making generalizations is. Every person has a right to be judged on the basis of their own abilities.

Shelly

  

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ablibTue Oct-31-06 02:27 AM
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#4. "RE: Pilot "Hoot" Gibson forced to retire"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 3)
Tue Oct-31-06 02:28 AM by ablib

  

          


I'm sure the FAA has very good reasons, and the statistics, for retiring pilots at that age. The chances of a perfectly healthy person keeling over and dying, I'm sure get much greater with age. That's too much of a risk flying commercially.

Just because you're a great driver at your age doesn't mean everyone at your age is.

I also didn't say people over 60 should be barred from driving. I think driving licensing laws should be changed for people 65 and over and 25 and younger.

If people were judged by the basis of their own abilities then you should of payed $0 in auto insurance your whole life, because you obviously are not a risk. But you aren't based on that, nothing in life is, that's why you pay for insurance for the "what if".

I live in Branson, MO elderly capital of the world. I see the accidents literally every day.


http://www.luhs.org/depts/injprev/Transprt/tran3.htm

Visit the Basement

  

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ShellyTue Oct-31-06 04:28 AM
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#5. "RE: Pilot "Hoot" Gibson forced to retire"
In response to ablib (Reply # 4)


  

          

Quote:
I'm sure the FAA has very good reasons, and the statistics, for retiring pilots at that age. The chances of a perfectly healthy person keeling over and dying, I'm sure get much greater with age. That's too much of a risk flying commercially.


That is why there are co pilots.

Shelly

  

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ablibTue Oct-31-06 05:18 AM
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#6. "RE: Pilot "Hoot" Gibson forced to retire"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 5)


  

          

That makes sense, but I'm no avaiator, surely the pilot is needed for something.

56% of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) supports the current rule.

If they raise it to 65 in 20 years they'll be bitching how 65 is too young.



Visit the Basement

  

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_Chewy_Tue Oct-31-06 05:59 AM
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#7. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to ablib (Reply # 6)
Tue Oct-31-06 06:11 AM by _Chewy_

  

          

>That makes sense, but I'm no avaiator, surely the pilot is
>needed for something.

There is nothing that the co-pilot couldn't do if the pilot was to somehow "keel over dead" as you say. In a commercial airline setting, they're equally qualified and trained and the number of hours is probably the only major difference.

>
>56% of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) supports the
>current rule.

Really? Are you their new spokesman or did you research that first before posting? Nothing like tossing some numbers together to sound intelligent eh?

  

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nightlyreaderTue Oct-31-06 06:16 AM
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#8. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to _Chewy_ (Reply # 7)


          

http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1581&wit_id=1941

Nightly Reader

  

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ShellyTue Oct-31-06 03:33 PM
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#16. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to nightlyreader (Reply # 8)


  

          

That all sounds very good. The reality is that the pilots will make such decisions based upon their own self interests. There are a finite number of flights and airlines. Seniority rules mean that younger pilots will usually be laid off first in a business downturn. They will favor eliminating older more senior pilots in order to protect their own positions, and open a path to promotions. Left to thei own devices,the airlines will also prefer to eliminate older higher paid pilots in favoer of younger lower paid pilots.

I would not place too much faith in the results of such polling, given the economic concerns of the membership polled.

Shelly

  

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ablibTue Oct-31-06 06:17 AM
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#9. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to _Chewy_ (Reply # 7)


  

          

I researched

Visit the Basement

  

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_Chewy_Tue Oct-31-06 07:05 AM
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#10. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to ablib (Reply # 9)


  

          

>I researched

If you researched, then how about posting some links to show some credibility to what you're saying.

  

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ablibTue Oct-31-06 07:09 AM
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#11. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to _Chewy_ (Reply # 10)


  

          

I don't need to nightlyreader already did.

Visit the Basement

  

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_Chewy_Tue Oct-31-06 07:14 AM
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#12. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to ablib (Reply # 11)


  

          

>I don't need to nightlyreader already did.

I'm asking what you personally found on the internet, not what NR found. I don't bother to read his postings anyway - it's along the same lines as someone else here that we all love & cherish.

  

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ablibTue Oct-31-06 07:16 AM
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#13. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to _Chewy_ (Reply # 12)


  

          

His link is better than the one I read. His is directly from the top brass.


I'll take that as proof.

Visit the Basement

  

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_Chewy_Tue Oct-31-06 07:25 AM
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#14. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to ablib (Reply # 13)


  

          

>His link is better than the one I read. His is directly from
>the top brass.
>
>
>I'll take that as proof.
>

How long have you been here Adam? You joined before I did - you know darn well by now to include a link when making statements like that. If you thought it made you sound smart to throw some numbers up - the very least you could do is give proper credit and quote the article or person!

  

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ablibTue Oct-31-06 07:58 AM
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#15. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to _Chewy_ (Reply # 14)
Tue Oct-31-06 08:01 AM by ablib

  

          

Ok I'll post a link just so you'll quit throwing your temper tantrum and go sit back in the corner and stop hijacking your own thread.


I have always felt strongly about the retire at 60 law because it should closely monitor how the states should be developing their own driving laws concerning the elderly... and teens, just to be fair. I even have posted on this in the past here. (No I'm not searching for those posts)

Before you even started this thread I knew that the ALPA was more in favor of keeping the current law intact. I was just unsure of the exact number. So I did a simple Google search and came up with this link:

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/Business/071206_pilot.html


Which came up with the same 56% number as nightlyreader's link did. Now if you don't want to read nightlyreaders post then I will add the link he posted here:

http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1581&wit_id=1941

For that link is from the head of the ALPA himself!

Now I know that I should post links to support my numbers, (blah, blah, blah). As I did with this link:


http://www.luhs.org/depts/injprev/Transprt/tran3.htm


Which I posted earlier in this thread to prove to Shelly that old drivers are a risk. Even though he still won't believe it because he's a good driver, so that means all old people are.

So are you happy now? All you had to do was read nightlyreaders post and you could of confirmed for yourself that I wasn't full of bullshit!

Visit the Basement

  

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LilJoeTue Oct-31-06 04:15 PM
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#17. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to ablib (Reply # 15)


  

          

>Ok I'll post a link just so you'll quit throwing your temper
>tantrum and go sit back in the corner and stop hijacking your
>own thread.
>
>
>I have always felt strongly about the retire at 60 law because
>it should closely monitor how the states should be developing
>their own driving laws concerning the elderly... and teens,
>just to be fair. I even have posted on this in the past here.
>(No I'm not searching for those posts)
>
>Before you even started this thread I knew that the ALPA was
>more in favor of keeping the current law intact. I was just
>unsure of the exact number. So I did a simple Google search
>and came up with this link:
>
>http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/Business/071206_pilot.html
>
>
>Which came up with the same 56% number as nightlyreader's link
>did. Now if you don't want to read nightlyreaders post then I
>will add the link he posted here:
>
>http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1581&wit_id=1941
>
>For that link is from the head of the ALPA himself!
>
>Now I know that I should post links to support my numbers,
>(blah, blah, blah). As I did with this link:
>
>
>http://www.luhs.org/depts/injprev/Transprt/tran3.htm
>
>
>Which I posted earlier in this thread to prove to Shelly that
>old drivers are a risk. Even though he still won't believe it
>because he's a good driver, so that means all old people are.
>
>
>So are you happy now? All you had to do was read
>nightlyreaders post and you could of confirmed for yourself
>that I wasn't full of bullshit!
---------------------------------------------------

Don't let him bother you Adam, I think he is off his medication again. He sure delights in antagonizing people and scaring them off the forum.He can't answer anyone without putting them down for some thing or another. Everyone has a red squirrel in their midst

LilJoe

  

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pakoTue Oct-31-06 04:45 PM
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#18. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to LilJoe (Reply # 17)


          

Quote:
Everyone has a red squirrel in their midst




  

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ablibTue Oct-31-06 05:21 PM
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#19. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to LilJoe (Reply # 17)


  

          

'tis true Lou, and we get them from time to time.

Visit the Basement

  

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louTue Oct-31-06 08:37 PM
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#25. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to LilJoe (Reply # 17)


          

Not sure where he went to finishing school, but he definitely needs to work on his people skills!!

  

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_Chewy_Tue Oct-31-06 05:56 PM
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#21. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to ablib (Reply # 15)
Tue Oct-31-06 05:56 PM by _Chewy_

  

          

>Ok I'll post a link just so you'll quit throwing your temper
>tantrum and go sit back in the corner and stop hijacking your
>own thread.

lol - boy wonder never ceases to amaze me. Sounds like someone's a little PO'ed because their feet was held to the fire. I called you to the carpet on it because I wanted to know whether you had made up some numbers or read that on the internet. When i first asked you backup your claim and post a link, all you had to do was say 'ok, here's the link or website where I found it' instead of dawdling. But sounds like a thin skinner - you've probably had more criticism here than you can handle.

  

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ablibTue Oct-31-06 06:03 PM
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#22. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to _Chewy_ (Reply # 21)
Tue Oct-31-06 06:03 PM by ablib

  

          

I'm not PO'd. I'm too easy going of a guy to get PO'd.

I just figured that nightlyreaders post was enough proof to see that I wasn't throwing numbers around. But I was wrong to think that even that was too simple for you.


Quote:
When i first asked you backup your claim and post a link, all you had to do was say 'ok, here's the link or website where I found it' instead of dawdling.



I didn't dawdle, I told you to go to nightlyreaders post, you would of found the answer there.

But again, too simple of an idea for you to "chew" on.

Visit the Basement

  

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_Chewy_Tue Oct-31-06 06:12 PM
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#23. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to ablib (Reply # 22)


  

          

>I'm not PO'd. I'm too easy going of a guy to get PO'd.
>
>I just figured that nightlyreaders post was enough proof to
>see that I wasn't throwing numbers around. But I was wrong to
>think that even that was too simple for you.
>I didn't dawdle, I told you to go to nightlyreaders post, you
>would of found the answer there.
>
>But again, too simple of an idea for you to "chew" on.

Good for you adam.

  

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pakoTue Oct-31-06 06:39 PM
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#24. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to _Chewy_ (Reply # 23)


          

Will the little doggie stop barking now?

  

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bkoenig1Tue Oct-31-06 08:44 PM
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#26. "RE: Pilot Gibson forced to retire"
In response to _Chewy_ (Reply # 14)


          

I read that 90% of statistics are made up on the spot.


Including the 90% I posted.

Bill K.



  

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AllynTue Oct-31-06 12:33 AM
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#2. "RE: Pilot "Hoot" Gibson forced to retire"
In response to _Chewy_ (Reply # 0)


          

I hold an ATP License with Learjet Type Rating and a full set of Instructor certificates. However, none of them are worth anything unless I can get medically qualified. Presently, there is no way I would think of flying solo again because of some known health issues.

I believe the limit can be safely extended to age 62 for healthy individuals. But that is likely not going to happen anytime soon.

  

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CompPeteTue Oct-31-06 05:43 PM
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#20. "RE: Pilot "Hoot" Gibson forced to retire"
In response to Allyn (Reply # 2)


  

          

Allyn,
What is needed to get 'medically qualified' for someone with health concerns to be able to legally fly again with your type of license? Just asking, I'm curious.

I found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_certification_in_the_United_States#Medical_certification_and_requirements
Is that the type of medical checks you are referring to?

  

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AllynTue Oct-31-06 09:42 PM
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#27. "FAA Medical Qualifications"
In response to CompPete (Reply # 20)
Tue Oct-31-06 09:44 PM by Allyn

          

For operations requiring an ATP, I would have to be able to pass a First Class Medical every six months. Right now, I have some problems with sleep apnea, blood glucose, lipids, an impacted ulnar nerve that seriously affects my left hand, and a couple of other things that make me doubt the wisdom of even getting a third class medical for Private License operations.

It is also frighteningly expensive to operate an airplane nowadays.

I no longer have a desire to fly like I did in my youth. I did quite a bit in the space of a few years before I went to work for the FAA as an enroute controller.

  

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CompPeteTue Oct-31-06 09:59 PM
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#28. "RE: FAA Medical Qualifications"
In response to Allyn (Reply # 27)


  

          

Thanks Allyn, I didn't mean to get too personal.

I'm interested in flying someday, but there is no way I could afford it right now. I don't have the time or money, but someday...

I just hope I'm not too old to pass the health exams by the time I'm old enough to afford the expense.

  

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dbahnTue Oct-31-06 10:37 PM
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#29. "RE: FAA Medical Qualifications"
In response to CompPete (Reply # 28)


  

          

The FAA has recently relaxed many of the very strict medical qualifications that had been in place in the past. There are a number of pilots flying legally now with insulin dependent diabetes, bypass grafts, stents, and other medical problems that in the past would be virtually an automatic suspension of medical qualifications. They allow what's called a "special issuance" certificate in those situations, where the applicant needs to provide medical proof that their condition is stable and not associated with a high safety risk, then the case is reviewed by a Federal Flight Surgeon and if accepted the pilot is granted the priveleges.

The mandatory age 60 retirement was a little easier for pilots to accept when they believed that their pension plan would carry them after that. Many Delta pilots, for instance, found that Delta's financial woes resulted in losing half their pension plan, and they were still forced to retire.

Dave



Dell 8300 Dimension
Pentium 4
W XP Home


www.woodenpropeller.com

  

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