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Subject: "What? No gun topic yet?" Previous topic | Next topic
MykThu Oct-03-02 07:38 AM
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"What? No gun topic yet?"


  

          

Well, if you don't know, the UN has declaired England as having the highest crime rate in the industrialized world.
Can't say we didn't warn you, because I know I definitely did.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200207/15/eng20020715_99700.shtml

While I'm hopeful that the US lawmakers AND the UN pay attention to this, this is one time that I can't say that I'm happy about being right.

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History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

  

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Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: What? No gun topic yet?
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JPThu Oct-03-02 07:48 AM
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#1. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Myk (Reply # 0)


          

"An armed society is a polite society"

I keep thinking of the old Westerns when I hear that.

"Excuse me sir."
"Beg pardon M'am."
(along with a tip of the hat and perhaps a slight bow)

JP

  

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MykThu Oct-03-02 07:53 AM
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#2. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to JP (Reply # 1)


  

          

Heh, forget about politeness. An armed victim at least has a chance at not being a victim.

Which reminds me, just last month (I think, maybe it was this month) The Armed Citizen had two jewelry store shootings. And people wonder why I want to own a gun for personal protection.

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LaurieThu May-22-03 01:51 AM
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"RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
Thu Oct-03-02 08:24 AM

  

          

I totally agree.







Attachment #1, (html file)

  

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anthonySThu May-22-03 01:51 AM
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#20. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Laurie (Reply # 0)


          

Laurie is definitely cool. What we need is a national gun permit. I live near the NJ/PA border and I can't bring my gun into NJ. Getting busted with it isn't even what I'm worried about- it's getting busted with the bulets I carry in the gun (hollowpoints). The fine is several thousand dollars per hollowpoint.

One of the reaons I enjoy living in PA is because I can carry a concealed weapon (with a permit). For years, even though you had a permit, you were not allowed to carry in a class 1 PA city (philadelphia and Pittsburg). It never made sense to me because those are the two places you would need a gun to defend yourself the most. That's why I'm NOT voting for Ed Rendell for PA governor next month. He fought tooth and nail and even sued the Commonwealth when they lifted the class 1 city gun ban several years back.

Here's my License to Carry a COncealed Weapon:



http://cyclingcaptured.com

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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garbruThu Oct-03-02 08:47 AM
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#3. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Myk (Reply # 0)


  

          

I agree. If more good people carried Guns less bad people would be comitting violent crimes. I myself would not want to carry a gun around, just not my thing, but I would feel more comfortable in public areas if more good people were armed and ready to handle some of the aweful violent outburts by armed trouble makers.



Garbru

  

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SmokeThu Oct-03-02 11:22 AM
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#4. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to garbru (Reply # 3)


  

          

Here's a scrap I saved, but didn't save the source, pretty sure it was from a pc911 thread.



Let us, for example, take a look at how the media reports mass shootings in America. Three illustrative cases will help us draw inferences as to the nature of these incidents and their reporting by the media.

In Pearl, Miss., in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham used a hunting rifle to kill his ex-girlfriend and her close friend and wound seven other students. It was Assistant Principal Joel Myrick who retrieved his handgun from his automobile and halted Woodham¹s shooting spree. Myrick held the young delinquent at bay until the police arrived. Later it was discovered that Woodham had also used a knife to stab his mother to death earlier that morning. While the shooting was widely reported, the fact that Mr. Myrick, an armed citizen, prevented a larger massacre with his gun was ignored by the media.

In Edinboro, Pa., in 1998, a deadly scenario took place when 14-year-old Andrew Wurst killed one teacher and wounded another as well as two other classmates. The shooting rampage here was halted by merchant James Strand who used his shotgun to force the young criminal to halt his firing, drop his gun, and surrender to police.

But yet, in another unreported incident in Santa Clara, California, Richard Gable Stevens, rented a rifle for target practice at the National Shooting Club on July 5, 1999 and then began a shooting rampage, herding three store employees into a nearby alley, and stating he intended to kill them. When Stevens became momentarily distracted, a shooting club employee, who had a .45-caliber handgun concealed under his shirt, drew his weapon and fired. Stevens was hit in the chest and critically wounded. He was then held at bay until the police arrived. A massacre in the making was prevented. The unknown employee was an unsung hero ignored by the major media. Why are these and other similar incidents, where the tables are turned and citizens use guns to protect themselves and others, not reported by the mainstream media?

By and large, to read about acts of citizens using guns for self or family protection, one has to read Robert A. Waters¹ excellent book, The Best Defense,31 for rarely do these acts get publicized in the mass media, nor do these cases get compiled, studied and published in the medical journals, as public health investigators do with their "gun and violence" research.

Moreover, rarely, if ever, are constitutional or historical issues covering the Second Amendment aired in the most widely utilized medium ‹ television. Mass murders and street violence on the other hand, get the lion¹s share of coverage ‹ particularly, when committed with firearms. And as anyone who takes even a cursory look and flips the pages of medical journals knows, these criminal shootings are studied and reported extensively in the medical journals, such as the NEJM, JAMA, Western Journal of Medicine, and even the state medical journals.*

Let me tell you about one more atrocious incident where innocent victims were killed or injured, and yet, this episode was not given the attention others are given simply because it was not committed with firearms. In May 1999, a deranged individual wreaked deadly havoc at a Costa Mesa, California daycare center playground, killing two toddlers and injuring 5 people. Steven Abrams, the 39-year-old assailant told police, "I was going to execute these children because they were innocent." After this barbaric act, Abrams calmly and unhurt sat and waited for police.

Needless to say, there was a big difference in how this incident was reported as compared to the saturation coverage of the Pearl, Miss.; Edinboro, Pa.; or the Littleton, Colo., shooting, which had occurred only a few days earlier. The difference: In this 1999 incident, the assailant used an automobile, a Cadillac to be exact, not a firearm.32


  

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mcnallyjpThu Oct-03-02 12:52 PM
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#5. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Myk (Reply # 0)


  

          

Hello Myk,
I am having a bit of trouble with that link. I would like to read the article but my browser timesout with page unobtainable etc.

Jim

  

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MykThu Oct-03-02 03:22 PM
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#6. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to mcnallyjp (Reply # 5)


  

          

It was very slow for me too. It was just one I grabbed off a search engine that wasn't a biased pro-gun site.

You should be able to find an article in an English paper called The Independent. Here it is, http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=314832
You might even be able to find it at the UN site.

I don't have all my favorites in my clean install yet or I could probably find it for you at every English online newspaper.

--------------
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mcnallyjpThu Oct-03-02 03:40 PM
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#7. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Myk (Reply # 6)
Thu Oct-03-02 03:40 PM

  

          

Thanks Myk - I hadnt seen the figures. Very disturbing, extremely embarassing for our Government who made major pre-election promises regarding crime. The phrase "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" being used extensively.

Jim

  

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OwbistThu Oct-03-02 03:59 PM
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#8. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to mcnallyjp (Reply # 7)


  

          

http://www.thepaperboy.com/welcome.html

Jim, the link above gives you thousands of papers and magazines worldwide. Add /uk in place of the 'welcome' and I think it provides over 350 Uk rags.

Derek.



  

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mcnallyjpThu Oct-03-02 04:13 PM
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#9. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Owbist (Reply # 8)


  

          

Thanks Derek, Will check it out,

Jim

  

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AlThu Oct-03-02 08:02 PM
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#10. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Myk (Reply # 0)


  

          

Thanks for the link Myk. Put it up on a British politics board.



  

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Bob GThu Oct-03-02 08:51 PM
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#11. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Myk (Reply # 0)


  

          

Couldn't get the link to work, so went looking for similar info. Found a report from 2001 that said while the US still led in murder rate, Britain had the highest "victimization" rate. Canada, Wales, Holland and Sweden were the other top finishers. Northern Ireland was near the bottom.

I was glad to see proof of what I've been saying for years - you just can't take your eye off those damn Swedes.

  

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old dudeFri Oct-04-02 10:07 AM
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#12. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Bob G (Reply # 11)


          

When my family left Long Beach, Ca. in 1946, we moved to a Northern Ca. town named Oroville. I had never handled a gun, didn't know anyone who had one and most likly couldn't remember ever having seen a real gun.

In Oroville, everyone had guns, they wore gun belts when they came in from surrounding mountain towns. Featherfalls, Forbestown, Quincy, Palermo, Chico, Rocky Honcut, all those little towns converged on Oroville. Eventually the RCBS company opened there and we all went into reloading, I did wad cutters for my S&W.

Joined the Sheriff's search and rescue, got myse'f a deppity badge and all that. We had jeeps and horseback.

Forgot all about Southern Calif.......

  

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andrini2000Fri Oct-04-02 01:16 PM
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#13. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to old dude (Reply # 12)


  

          

I used to have an AR15 Assault rifle. M16 for short. Just like the one I had in the Corps. .223 and so accurate. It was sweet. Also had a 'rossi' short pump .22. I had a 'plinket' and used to shoot that rossi in my apt.
Had lots of fun.
Then got into archery. Wow. That was cool. We used to go out to the desert off the 138 towards Victorville. Get those varments.



Gravity....not just a good idea, it's the law!
My Magic

  

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MykFri Oct-04-02 04:38 PM
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#15. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to andrini2000 (Reply # 13)


  

          

Here in Illi-fornia in a nearby lefty town, a kid shot a burgler in the butt with his hunting bow (not sure if it was a broad head or not). The burgler sued and I think won.

Here in my town a guy who lived downstairs from his business heard a breakin and shot two kids, killing one of them. Our DA said he wasn't going to press charges against the business owner but was thinking of pressing some sort of manslaughter against the criminal who lived. I'm not sure if he did or not.

Along the lines of the England thing. Chicago does not allow anyone to have a pistol and that's been in effect long enough that there isn't many who are grandfathered out of it. (Of course, being Chicago, they made a rule saying the Alderman were allowed to have a pistol and carry it.)
I think Chicago now leads the US as murder capital.
But good ol' Richie Daley would rather harass someone like Laurie than go after criminals.

--------------
History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

  

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MykFri Oct-04-02 04:37 PM
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#14. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Bob G (Reply # 11)


  

          

Here's a short quote from the top link, "Researchers found that nearly 55 crimes are committed per 100 people in England and Wales compared with an average of 35 per cent in other industrialized countries.

England and Wales also have the worst record for "very serious"offenses, registering 18 such crimes for every 100 inhabitants, followed by Australia with 16."

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andrini2000Fri Oct-04-02 04:43 PM
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#16. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Myk (Reply # 14)


  

          

No offense intended, but when I was in Oz last year, on the news they showed security camera footage of people robbing 7/11's and such. The funny thing, was that they only had big knives. Not guns like back home.



Gravity....not just a good idea, it's the law!
My Magic

  

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ukmitchSat Oct-05-02 03:27 AM
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#17. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Myk (Reply # 14)


  

          

Earlier this week, here in the UK, an 18 year old London thug was jailed for life - which usually equates to about 8 years - for murdering a man in the street, because he wanted to steal the victim's Audi Quattro. The dead man's girlfriend watched her fiancé die in the road from multiple stab wounds.

AFTER the jury had turned in a guilty verdict, they were told (that's how we do things here) that the young thug had previously been arrested for armed robbery - same knife I believe - and was then subsequently RELEASED on Police Bail, pending further inquiries - which is also how we do things here nowadays.

There's a lesson there somewhere, in the midst of tragedy!

Another lesson from across the pond is that we currently have serial rapist on the loose in the Greater London area. He has already raped and brutalized two 10 year old girls, among at least a dozen other victims.

The police have appealed to the public to help catch the man before he kills.

Clearly members of the public would want to do what they could, but when I was growing up, in a different Britain, it was the public who appealed to the police to catch criminals and not the other way round!

Should anyone stupid enough to carry a gun come across the rapist at work and used the gun, or a knife, then woe betide them - they'd get a hefty jail sentence for sure.

A couple reasons why Britain has become a lot less safe place to live in.

And, as everywhere, our paid politicians look on



Mitch

  

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MykSun Oct-06-02 01:51 PM
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#19. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to ukmitch (Reply # 17)


  

          

I've heard about that reading letters to the editor type things in the various English online papers I've read.

Coddling the criminals while cracking down on the people trying to defend themselves. That couldn't get much more wrong. That probably has more to do with it than any gun law does. They've made the law abiding person more scared to protect themselves than the criminal is to attack them.
Of course it seems the two go hand in hand. Politicians don't want to take the hard road and go after criminals because they won't listen and provide results. So instead they focus on those who will listen and follow, that looks much better come election time.

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History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

  

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cascaSat Oct-05-02 09:49 AM
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#18. "RE: What? No gun topic yet?"
In response to Myk (Reply # 0)


  

          

Though the arguements focus on the object (gun) they always skirt the fact that the police cannot protect you from a determined criminal and we have career criminals.

So really the point is do you have the right to defend yourself if attacked? Or do you have a duty to flee?

The countless numbers of dead in East Timor and Rowanda were done with machetes, close wet work.

Violence is part of our existence, I believe the individual is best suited to handle it, course I am trained, so I can understand why the unprepared want a policeman.

Under Construction

  

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