Info for those that use Norton
Symantec has quietly raised renewal prices for its Norton antivirus and other products, a move some see as a parting shot before Microsoft enters the consumer security fray next year. On Monday, the security software giant raised the prices Norton users pay for another year of updates to their installed products by as much as 33 percent. The updates include traditional virus signatures and product enhancements, which are a new feature and part of Symantec's move to a subscription model.

Cupertino, Calif.-based Symantec announced the 2006 editions of its Norton products last month. The company at the time published prices for new users of the products: Norton AntiVirus, Norton Internet Security, Norton System Works and Norton Personal Firewall. At the time, it did not disclose pricing for existing users signing up for another year of updates. It activated the higher prices on Monday, a company representative said.
http://tinyurl.com/cuz2x

Now would be a good time to break the Symantec habit.

>Now would be a good time to break the Symantec habit.

Is there a patch to get ya through the rough spots?

Yep, matter of fact there is, sir. Made by Kaspersky Pharmaceuticals and available without a prescription.

Symantec has raised subscription renewal prices every few years routinely. So what? Only a fool would renew a subscription when you can purchase a new version of the product at little or no cost and get a new years subscription along with it. I have upgraded NSW every year for the past five years and paid nothing but a few dollars sales tax for it.

Nearly every major AV program has been charging more for subscription renewals than Symantec for years, most charge $39.95 a year, and there are no big discounts on the programs themselves. I use Norton because it is consistently the best bargain in the industry, you can't beat free. I will be buying NSW 2006 Premier the first time I see it advertised on sale for free.

Shelly

Cough...bit-torrent sites...cough cough.... just playin'

On a more serious note, Shelly you do have a point. Wait till you see a sale on it and do that. I've seen 9.99 sales or free after rebate sales....A computer store I worked at had sales sometimes where you could pick up a last year (still new) copy of norton with the purchase of a hd or memory or some other hardware. When 2006 hits and all of our boxes said 2005 they would just sit forever, so mark'em down or give'em with a purchanse and they'd fly, giving you the same length of updates as if you bought it full price.

I purchased NSW 2005 Premier last February, free after rebates, when it went on sale at Staples. I installed it last week when my 2004 version subscription was about to expire. I have not spent a dime in years for one of the best AV programs available, and received Norton Utilities, Clean Sweep, and Ghost as part of the free deal.

Symantec's new versions come out every year in October or November in time for holiday selling, by February or March they are on sale at Staples, CompUSA, and Office Depot for between free and $9.95 after mail in rebates. Plan ahead!

Shelly

I know you are a dedicated Norton user, Shelly, but I wouldn't put it on my machine if it was free. It gums up a system worse than AOL. And to bundle it with new computers is a joke. I can't count the machines I've had to repair because the subscription had expired and was never renewed. Even uninstalling it is a pain in the ass.

>I know you are a dedicated Norton user, Shelly, but I
>wouldn't put it on my machine if it was free. It gums
>up a system worse than AOL. And to bundle it with new
>computers is a joke. I can't count the machines I've had to
>repair because the subscription had expired and was never
>renewed. Even uninstalling it is a pain in the ass.

As someone who has been using NAV and NSW for the past 5 years straight, I think I can make a few fair statements.

#1) The recent releases (versions 2003 and on) are noticeably heavier on the resources compared to earlier versions. On my P III, 866 MHz, I have 384 MB RAM and I did notice in the 2005 version that my boot time to desktop was a bit longer than usual. But once it got up and running, it was ok. I will have to say in all fairness however, now that i've been using PC-cillin for the past few months, I have noticed much better performance overall w/out the hit on the resources. So yes, compartively I do like PC-cillin beter. But it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison since NSW is a suite of packages. So you can take my opinon with a grain of salt. As poeple like Allyn has said before, the latest versions would be fine to run on newer systems (P4 & above with atleast 256 MB RAM) w/out any issues.

#2) I have never once experienced any trouble wiht uninstalling the program either on my machine or any of the other PCs I have worked on. Furthmore, Darren's assessment that it's "worse than AOL" is an outlandish comment IMHO.

#3) It seems like there are two opposite extremes here where we have one person favoring Norton AV and another opposing it outright. We have had more than heated debates on this board about which AV is the best and more specifically I remember a thread about this very specific topic (about why Norton AV is favored by some members and whatnot). It is what it is folks... whether you want to promote Norton AV or some other program, I think one's comments would carry more voice if it wasn't done w/ over-the-top comments like "...worse than AOL".

I don't know about "w/ over-the-top comments like "...worse than AOL"".....

I've valued Darren's information, solutions, opinions, and comments for quite a long time. They have been very helpful. I think he probably has a basis for the comment.

duane

>I don't know about "w/ over-the-top comments like "...worse
>than AOL"".....
>
>I've valued Darren's information, solutions, opinions, and
>comments for quite a long time. They have been very helpful.
>I think he probably has a basis for the comment.
>
>duane

Well obviously he knows his stuff Duane. No where did I doubt that. By the same token I don't believe that anyone here is exempt from making errors about something or saying something that is not 100% accurate. But when one makes to starts to make such exaggerated comments , it is highly suspect in my mind that he/ she has an exe to grind or has a very unbalanced view of said subject. Now if you (or anyone else for that matter) want to compare or explain how exactly NAV is worse than AOL - I'm all ears.

want to compare or explain how exactly NAV is worse than AOL - I'm all ears.
---------------------------------------------------------------
You have that wrong as usual,You are all mouth

LilJoe

>want to compare or explain how exactly NAV is worse than AOL
>- I'm all ears.
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>You have that wrong as usual,You are all mouth

Lil Joe - what can I say about you that you already don't know?

When a program is uninstalled, it should clean up after itself. Norton doesn't do a very good job of it. I've seen it leave paths to non-existent Services, drivers, and startup files. All types of errors pop up when the machine is restarted, because Windows is looking for these files. This is especially true if the system has been compromised because the product wasn't updated after it expired. Most novice users, who got a Compaq from Wal-mart or wherever, don't even know they have to renew any subscriptions. Most of these machines come with only 256MB of RAM. That's not even enough RAM to properly run XP. Throw in the bundled Symantec software (which is usually installed with everything), and you may as well have bought a brick. Like I said, I have cleaned and tuned many of these machines.

Use a registry cleaner after a Norton product is uninstalled, and see how much registry fat is left behind. Look in Program Files, Common Files, All Users, Drivers, etc. for more left-overs. Symantec even has a few pages on its website on how to manually remove its products.

Uninstall your Symantec product, remove all the left-over fat, and be amazed at the difference in your computer's speed. AOL hooks a system the same, thus why I used it as a comparison.

As a side note, I respect Shelly's computer knowledge and wisdom. I probably learned half of what I know about computers from his advice in this forum over the years. The other half, I learned from LilJoe and Grogan.
But, that doesn't mean I always have to agree with them, or you for that matter, chewy.

Those are basically the reasons that I don't use Symantec products.

They stick so much everywhere with very little information on what it is or what it does.

My Compaq/Dell came preinstalled with a 3-month (or was it less) version of Norton AV/Firewall. The first thing I did was to remove it, but even that was confusing. There were 3 or 4 seperate (or was it more) items to remove through add/remove. Was not clear as to what sequence, or what the ramifications of removing one part & not another were.

And now even with it "removed", I'm sure there are plenty of remnants laying around - both on the HD & in the registry.

Now that said, I haven't had any problems since or because of removing it.

What I find a bit ridiculous is all this talk about empty registries keys being left behind. So what?

So just how many keys are left behind by Norton, Darren? Do you know? Have you counted the number of empty keys left behind by Norton versus AOL? I doubt you've had the patience to sit there and that. Your point is taken. Yes I agree that ideally, a program should remove itself cleanly. But the reality is that many programs these days don't - free or otherwise. In the whole time I've been participating on this forum, I've seen just a few posts where a poster said their uninstallation of Norton got botched up. And that's mostly with the older versions (2001 or 2002).

I know you've helped people out here - but I wonder just what the heck you were thinking when you said NAV is worse than AOL. One is a trusted AV program that's been around for several years and AOL.... well helluva comparison there. I used to really value your postings here - and lately I've noticed you makign alot of flippant comments that only a newbie would make.

Not everyone considers it so "Trusted" anymore. No offense, friends, but not a week goes by that I don't get a service call related to Norton software. It feels like bloodied, dirty money. Yes it's bloated, fragile, ineffective (the problem is not so much file infectors these days... malware is completely different in nature), and messy. Just ridiculous. People thank me for removing it.

It sure is a good thing that Symantec has put out newer removal utilities, because a botched install/uninstall of Norton software can be crippling.

There's a battery of them now. Up until fairly recently, there was nothing for Norton products newer than the 2003 suites. Following this regimen, it it satisfactory without manual hunting and poking to purge a PC of all broken Norton stuff, new and old. It probably doesn't remove all traces, but close enough to be harmless.

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.nsf/docid/2005033108162039

To be fair, I have to say that I've realized that there is a common piece of security software that I despise even more than Norton Internet Security, which is far worse than a standalone NAV. Freedom Firewall/Antivirus/Antispyware (Zero Knowlege). Bell Sympatico really pushes that and bundles it with their Internet service packages along with other shit software that annoys. (If people call me to set up their Internet from the start, they don't get any of that crap) It gets broken, interferes with people's usage, causes problems in the explorer shell and I have yet to ever see it uninstall correctly. Manual removal isn't easy.

Grogan

Someone I know had uninstalled Norton SystemWorks 2004 (trial) - maybe it was 2005 I forget. They ran the uninstaller for the program, but of course it didn't remove everything. They then tried to install Symantec AntiVirus CE, but were unable to because of the left-over registry entries for SystemWorks 2004. It kept asking for the installation CD for SystemWorks 2004!

It took me forever to find all the junk leftover registry entries and remove them manually. What a pain - I didn't realize there would be so much crap left because I was using just plain RegEdit for this. If I'd known how many entries were left, I'd have installed Resplendent Registrar and could have done it soooo much quicker.

After removing all those leftover entries, Symantec AV CE was able to install without problems.

Btw, I had run CCleaner and RegMechanic 4, but they weren't able to find all of the entries. Looking back, I probably should have used RegSeeker - it probably would have found everything.

I think Symantec AV works fine, but most reviews seem to consistently place Kaspersky at the top. I use SAV CE, and haven't had any problems with viruses - it mostly catches trojans from websites as I'm visiting them. As for SystemWorks - talk about bloatware - never again!

EDIT: So yes, I use Symantec AV, but I also agree it's more bloated than other antivirus programs, and the uninstaller is a piece of crap (at least for Norton SystemWorks) - and SystemWorks is even more bloated. Why do I continue to use it? Because it works, and because I've been using Norton/Symantec for years. Would I change? Maybe, but I'm afraid to go through the uninstall process hehehe

I don't think so at all. I really could care less what anyones opinion is about any program. They are free to make their own decisions, and I will make mine. I only worry about my experience of 30+ years in computing. Norton is an excellent product and always has been. It has never let me down. But the reasom I use it is because it doesn't cost me anything and is far superior to any of the free products available. I have yet to hear of anyone getting messed up from my advice in the 10 years I have been posting on these forums.

Shelly

Darren is right. While saying that it is worse than AOL is IMO an overstatement. It is right on par with AOL. Once you install Norton you will never be totally rid of it unless you clean install or spend HOURS finding every little bit of Symantec all over your system after you uninstall. Which means it's faster to reinstall windows.

It is a resource hog. But I don't have slow computers so I don't notice it.


And I don't uninstall it so I don't have all the AOL-like problems Darren describes. But I have worked on other peoples computers so I know the hell uninstalling symantec products can be. Like Darren stated.

Chewy...quit arguing

Visit the Basement

Right now I am running both Norton SystemWorks 2005 and Norton Internet Security 2005 -- BOTH EXCELLENT PRODUCTS, I don't care what all the BS is posted here about Norton products, it is just a bunch of hyper-emotional opinionated BS by people with an obvious axe to grind. I agree with Shelly, {and support you too, Chewy} -- I have had no problems with Norton products, they are excellent, and if you shop wisely, you cannot beat the bargains they offer consumers -- quality products for almost nothing after rebates. As for all the anti-NIS comments, I realize NIS has had problems but the 2005 edition is vastly improved; I converted to NIS when the latest ZoneAlarm Pro became unstable on my system; on my box NIS works flawlessly, I test stealth at nine different testting sites -- as for those who claim NAV cannot detect anything, NIS is junk, SystemWorks is bloat, etc. -- **BS** -- so far as I'm concerned. SystemWorks keeps my system functioning smoothly, I love Speed Disk, the "WinDoctor" portion {actually "One-Button Checkup"} is very fast and as thorough a check as you can get from the Utilities out there, etc. And I have NEVER had Install-Uninstall problems. For anyone's info, that "Junk Installer-Uninstaller" used by Norton products is, ding-ding -- MICROSOFT'S OWN ** Windows Installer ** -- yes, Google for it, it is the standard built-in MS Windows Installer; now if you want to call that junk, many programs use the MS Windows Installer, not just Norton .. I won't mention any names here to avoid getting personal, but there is one or two people here that I find their habitual anti-Norton comments very distasteful, because they are so obviously prejudiced, jaded and full of venom and downright ludicrous hyperbole -- why people cannot discuss software rationally and calmly is a mystery but some people lack the maturity to do that, especially when it comes to the usual Symantec-Norton Hatred .. and their comments are IMHO downright misleading and WRONG from a technical perspective as well .. but it is a waste of breath to argue .. I will use what I will use, as will Shelly, and NO, Shelly and I are not fools, we know Security, we know Software; not everyone who uses or prefers Symantec products is a noob or a fool .. SURPRISE !! Hehehe .. Good Day All .. I realize I am opposing the Radical Jihad and Violent "Anti-Norton Terrorist MuHadeem Brethren" out there arrayed against Norton-Symantec and to do that is futile, but guess what guys, YOUR VERY PREDICTABLE ACIDIC ANTI-NORTON COMMENTS DON'T MAKE A ** DENT ** IN THE MARKET SHARE .. HAHAHA .. So blast away, it ain't gonna make a Damn bit of difference in Symantec's revenue or market share, no matter ** what** hate you have for them, or ** what ** "Hate" for Norton that y'all so predictably and faithfully post on internet forums .. You know why? Because wise consumers realize you're all wet and as Shelly continuallly states, Norton offers quality products at low prices .. Good Day .. I said what I wanted to say .. Now everyone can go back to use {or not use} what they want, it is a free market and none of y'all can stop us ..

That post only demonstrates that you can stoop as low as your counterparts on the other side of the argument - actually, maybe a bit lower. Totally disappointing.

For years, I used and recommended Norton's AV products. I used Norton's AV on my DOS PC's way back when and continued up through this year. Early this year, I had a hard time upgrading my Norton Internet Security 2003. I would follow the update link and it would tell me that it could not find my authorization to update (or some other mumbo jumbo). I have been using legal copies of Norton for at least 12 years, if not 15.

I called tech support and even though I had bought the Norton Internet Security 2003 from Symantec's site, they could not find any records. I had moved from Brooklyn, NY to Florida since the purchase, so my e-mail, zip-code, address and phone numbers had changed, but there still should have been a record of my previous purchases. The program would not let me either update my definitions nor buy the Norton Internet Security 2005 at the upgrade price.

The tech rep who had a hard time with the English language, kept putting me on hold (to get advice) and finally had me e-mail Symantec some files from my PC.

A week later, They called me to tell me that they would "ALLOW ME TO UPGRADE TO NORTON INTERNET SECURITY 2005", not at the upgrade price, but at a price less than the regular price. I was so disgusted, that I went along with it. I received the CD (they overnighted it for free) and installed it. As soon as I installed it, I could not open Outlook Express. If it did open, my PC would lock-up. As long as I did not try to open Outlook Express, my PC ran normal, though slower than usual. I called tech support, told the rep the story and he could not find any record of the transaction (from 2 days earlier). I demanded (after about 30 minutes) to speak to someone else. Two reps and one supervisor later, they found the purchase transaction for Norton Internet Security 2005. They told me to un-install Norton Internet Security 2005 and then go to Symantec.com and use some tools that would remove the last traces of the program. I did everything as they said. When I rebooted, I got a message. Using my other PC, I tracked the message in Norton's knowledge base and performed the steps as instructed. I rebooted, I got another message. I again tracked that message in the knowledge base and performed the steps as instructed. After 3 more reboots and messages, I was booting with no problem.

I opened Outlook and it worked fine. My PC was as fast as ever. The tech reps had told me to call back after un-installing. I did. The rep I was connected to had no knowledge of what I was talking about. I gave him a case number. After 2 or 3 more reps, I finally got someone who knew more than how apologize for putting me on hold (so many times). He told me some extra steps to take. I followed his procedure as if I was using a PC for the first time in my life. After the install, I tried to open Outlook Express and it would not open for about 5 minutes. Then the PC locked up. I rebooted. The PC ran like it was attached to an anchor via a bungee cord: Slow and jerky. The rep talked me through an un-install and the Norton's knowledge base procedures outline earlier in this rant. When he was sure that we had all remnants of all previous Norton installs were out of this PC, we reinstalled. We did many extra reboots and used MicroSoft's Reg-clean many times to make sure we were getting everything out. This PC has been running Win98SE since 4-23-1999. We reinstalled, but got the same results. He told me to give the Norton Internet Security 2005 CD to a Church (or other charity), faxed me a pledge not to reuse the Norton Internet Security 2005 CD and after I faxed the pledge back, he refunded the sale price of Norton Internet Security 2005 to my credit card, minus the Shipping and Handling (the "Overnight being free" meant no extra charge).

Yes, I admit that Norton stood behind it's product, but the people at tech support try so hard not to be offensive that they become offensive. The need to speak to 3 or 4 people per call is ridiculous. The lack of followup ability from one rep to another is a pain. And most importantly, the resource dragging and the inability for the program to work properly was a downer.

For some members at this forum to say "I use it and I don't care what other people say" is not right. The reason we have a forum is to share advice and concerns. I would never say to another member, "it worked for me, tough luck that it didn't work for you". The reason that Windows problems are so much more complicated than MAC problems is the diversity of hard-ware and applications as you go from one PC to another PC.

I have no ax to grind with Norton. I used to be the resident PC guru on my job. Over the years, I talked hundreds of people into buying Norton products. It is my opinion that Norton has not been upgrading the virus engine enough over the past few years. Other companies (IMHO) have caught them and past them.


I'm FreddieVee-Learning all the Time!!

Your opinion differs from mine. So what?
Yet, I state my opinion and get flamed. WTF?
I was simply conveying my experiences with Norton products over the past few years. If you want to use the product, then by all means do. Unless something drastically changes, I won't be installing it on mine, nor will I recommend it to anyone else.