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JordanFri Jun-20-08 01:21 PM
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"Move the Useless Notion to Canada"


  

          

Evict It, Export It
http://www.nysun.com/new-york/move-the-useless-notion-to-canada/80399/

Quote:
The United Nations has become a Useless Notion occupying valuable real estate on the East River. Why do we put up with this consortium of petty dictators and corrupt oligarchies? The recent election of the new president of the General Assembly confirms my suspicion that to achieve success in the United Nations, one must hate the United States.

The fact that Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann of Nicaragua is a Catholic priest shouldn't dismiss his clearly anti-American statements of the past. An avowed advocate of the Marxist liberation theology, he had been reprimanded by Pope John Paul II for his involvement with the left-wing Nicaraguan Sandinistas. He served as foreign minister under the dictatorship of Daniel Ortega. Mr. d'Escoto has called President Reagan a "butcher of my people" and claims he started the Contra War. He also calls President Bush a liar, which should endear him to the likes of Keith Olbermann, Bill Maher, and the Hollywood elite.

At a press conference following his unopposed election as General Assembly president, Mr. d'Escoto tried to soften his previous rhetoric, but we shouldn't forget who this man is. As a member of Los Doce, or "the 12," Mr. d'Escoto helped mask the communist orientation of the Sandinista National Liberation Front and played a key role in the Marxists' rise to power. Now, he says let's let bygones be bygones.

As an adviser to Mr. Ortega, Mr. d'Escoto also endorsed Nicaragua's ties to Venezuela's Hugo Chavez and to Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. This resulted in Iranian investment deals, mutual visits, and Ortega's endorsement before the U.N. General Assembly of Iran's demand to develop its nuclear capabilities.

Further proof that the United Nations is run by Marxist thugs and dictators was its recent rejection of a nongovernmental organization led by Armando Valladares, the Cuban who was kept in prison by Castro for 22 years.

The U.N. Committee on Non-Governmental Organizations rejected the application of the Human Rights Foundation, because the Cuban representative charged that Mr. Valladares was a convicted criminal and had participated in terrorist activities. The decision was voted against by Colombia, Israel, Peru, and, of course, the United States. Siding with Cuba, who held this man prisoner for more than two decades, were Sudan, Venezuela, Angola, China, Egypt, and Russia, among other countries whose own records on human rights remain suspect.

Mr. Valladares had been a prisoner of conscience in Cuba and is now recognized as a distinguished poet and writer who founded the Human Rights Foundation upon his release. Its mission is a deep commitment to individual liberty and an aim to raise awareness about both the nature of freedom and the vulnerability of freedom in the Americas. Well, no wonder the U.N. commission rejected that radical group.

According to the U.N. Charter, the organization's purposes are "to maintain international peace and security; to develop friendly relations among nations; to cooperate in solving international economic, social, cultural and humanitarian problems and in promoting respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms."

Now when has it done that? How long have Christians been killed and persecuted in the Sudan? But what a great job the United Nations did evacuating all the Europeans while nearly a million Rwandans slew each other. What about that sex scandal in 2005 when Secretary-General Annan had to admit that U.N. peacekeepers and staff have sexually abused or exploited war refugees in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The worst of the 150 or so allegations of misconduct include pedophilia, rape, and prostitution.

One thing the United Nations does do on a regular basis is denounce Israel — a tiny nation surrounded by countries calling for its elimination — whenever it takes retaliatory action against attacks. Let's not forget the Oil for Food scandal, Zimbabwe, Somalia, Burma, and the other festering hot spots around the world that the United Nations is incapable of monitoring.

Why do we tolerate such a presence in our city? I recommend that we evict the Useless Notion and export it to a country that appreciates effete diplomacy. France, which just convicted Brigitte Bardot of inciting Islamaphobia for writing a letter critical of Muslim immigrants, might be a possibility, although President Sarkozy may turn out to be our best ally. Canada's another choice. The thought police on its Human Rights Commission put Mark Steyn on trial for the same offense because he quoted something that offended the Canadian Islamic community. A Canadian investigator for the commission, Dean Steacy, said: "Freedom of speech is an American concept, so I don't give it any value."

Senator McCain will be in Toronto today. Maybe he can convince the Canadians to take the United Nations off our hands, demonstrating once and for all the benefit of the North American Free Trade Agreement from which Senator Obama is threatening to withdraw.

  

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jazz4freeFri Jun-20-08 01:51 PM
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#1. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Jordan (Reply # 0)


  

          

The United Nations is not the fourth branch of the United States government. And unless the parties get too loud and spill out into the street, you have no reason to evict.

Right now some folks don't like you too much. Hopefully that'll start to change a little come November.

And, admittedly, Canada's not perfect, we do have to tweak the dials a bit. At least we haven't gotten to the point where we need a whole new entertainment center.

  

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LesFri Jun-20-08 02:09 PM
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#2. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 1)


  

          

Hi James. A bit off topic here but I've gathered from the tone of some of your posts that you're a pretty fair guitar player. Do you have any videos or sound clips of some of your work? I'd like to hear what you can do.

Les

  

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jazz4freeFri Jun-20-08 02:25 PM
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#3. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Les (Reply # 2)


  

          

I'd love to oblige, Les, but I never record except now and again (because my ears ain't what they used to be), to verify a tone. I got sick of listening to all the clams, (that's all I ever heard) and anything that might have been put on tape by someone else several years back, hopefully, is long lost.

Whenever anyone pressed a record button I started thinking, and that ain't good.

  

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Ed W.Fri Jun-20-08 02:57 PM
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#4. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 3)


          

Quote:
I started thinking, and that ain't good.


Thank you, now that says it all.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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jazz4freeFri Jun-20-08 03:12 PM
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#5. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 4)


  

          

Touché.

My chess ride just called. Ah, chess, beer and music. And in that order...

So, Ed, I guess you'll have to play with yourself the rest of the day.

But, I'm sure you're well-acquainted with that.

  

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npmclFri Jun-20-08 03:30 PM
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#6. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Jordan (Reply # 0)


  

          

I believe that it's recognised as being on international territory, you can't evict it.

  

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OldRayFri Jun-20-08 03:47 PM
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#7. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 6)


          

Actually, we can withdraw that recognition, and ask the UN to leave.

I'm not saying its a good idea (tho I don't think much of the UN in general), and it is very unlikely, but it could be asked to leave.

Ray

  

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npmclFri Jun-20-08 04:47 PM
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#9. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to OldRay (Reply # 7)


  

          

Quote:
The United Nations Headquarters site is officially international territory, not part of the United States.
http://www.un.org/av/photo/subjects/unhq.htm

  

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OldRayFri Jun-20-08 07:58 PM
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#11. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 9)


          

Yes, its UN territory for legal and administrative purposes; but the land belongs to the US, and if the US wants them to leave Manhattan Island, they would ultimately have no choice.

Ray

  

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npmclFri Jun-20-08 09:23 PM
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#12. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to OldRay (Reply # 11)
Fri Jun-20-08 09:30 PM by npmcl

  

          

The land doesn't belong to the USA, it belongs to the UN.

Quote:
An international territory
The site of UN Headquarters is owned by the United Nations. It is an international territory. No federal, state or local officer or official of the United States, whether administrative, judicial, military or police may enter UN Headquarters except with the consent of and under conditions agreed to by the Secretary-General of the Organization.
http://www.un.org/geninfo/faq/factsheets/FS23.HTM

I imagine that if you invaded illegally you'd probably win.

  

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ShellyMon Jun-23-08 01:06 AM
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#29. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to OldRay (Reply # 11)


  

          

You are wrong and Noreen is correct. The UN sits on international soil, and is not subject to the laws of the US or any other country. The land was not only donated by Rockefeller, it was officially ceded to the UN by the US government in perpetuity. They have their own police force, laws, and their own court. After WWII, our government had no intention of making the same mistake we did with the League of Nations following WWI.

Shelly

  

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DJCMon Jun-23-08 04:06 AM
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#31. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 29)


  

          

The only gutsy decision made by UN was to send troops to Korea after North Koreas invasion of the south. This only happened because the USSR made a stupid decision to boycott a meeting of the permanent members council. If the USSR had attended a veto by them would not have allowed the UN to send troops into Korea, and US would have had to go it alone. They are good at having meetings, passing resolutions, which they never enforce. The had troops in Africa watching the genocide going on and never interfered to stop it. However members eat well in New York. They break state and federal laws and cannot be prosecuted. The UN is as useless as teats on a boar hog. Oh yes and they are corrupt look at the food for oil program with Hussein

  

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Paul DMon Jun-23-08 04:26 AM
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#32. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to DJC (Reply # 31)


  

          


The UN was responsible for the liberation of East Timor and its regaining of independent nationhood, years after President Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger directly approved and supported the Indonesian invasion which resulted in at least indiscriminate massacres during the invasion and at least 102,800 deaths during the occupation: 18,600 unlawful executions and 84,200 starvation deaths.



Paul D

  

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DJCMon Jun-23-08 06:53 AM
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#33. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 32)


  

          

How many are dead in Rwanda because of no action by UN when troops were stationed in area and did nothing. How many are dead in Darfur because of inaction by the UN. It is a useless organization.

  

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OldRayWed Jun-25-08 03:02 PM
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#44. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 29)


          

Technicalities aside, if the US wants the UN out of New York, they will eventually go. Ask those rent-control tenants how Donald Trump got them out of some of the buildings he bought.

It was a mistake on our part not to become part of the League of Nations, but that body was fatally flawed from the start due to lack of coercive powers. The UN may be slightly better in that respect, but has often showed a lack of willingness to deal with terrible internal abuses by despotic regimes.

Ray

  

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npmclWed Jun-25-08 03:55 PM
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#45. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to OldRay (Reply # 44)


  

          

Can you imagine just how difficult it must be to get 192 sovereign states of differing cultures, religions, languages, forms of government and hopes for the future to agree about how to achieve progress for mankind? Have you ever tried to get all the members of your own family to agree about something?

  

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ShellyWed Jun-25-08 04:34 PM
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#46. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 45)


  

          

Precisely. The right wingers have railed against the UN from the beginning. Any international organization that is inclusive will suffer disagreements, and some members will attempt to use the organization for their own less than honorable purposes. As flawed as the UN is, and one of its principal flaws is in the veto power of the permanent members of the security council that was required in order to make the UN palatable to the great powers at the end of WWII, the UN has still managed to prevent some conflicts, settle others peacefully, and defeat a few. The UN suffers mainly from human weakness, as the world always has.

The League of Nations was stillborn because isolationists prevented the participation of the US and other powers following WWI. Otherwise, a successful league may well have averted WWII. As George Santayana warned, "those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it". As has been stated by many wiser than I, if the UN did not exist we would need to invent it.

Shelly

  

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JordanWed Jun-25-08 05:05 PM
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#47. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 45)


  

          

Quote:
Can you imagine just how difficult it must be to get 192 sovereign states of differing cultures, religions, languages, forms of government and hopes for the future to agree about how to achieve progress for mankind? Have you ever tried to get all the members of your own family to agree about something?

It sounds 'useless' to me.

  

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ShellyWed Jun-25-08 06:01 PM
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#48. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Jordan (Reply # 47)


  

          

Why am I not surprised?

Shelly

  

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JordanFri Jun-20-08 03:56 PM
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#8. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 6)


  

          

You may have a point, given that the SCOTUS is inclined to grant United States constitiutionl rights to all 'citizens' of the world.

  

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OwbistFri Jun-20-08 05:56 PM
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#10. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Jordan (Reply # 8)


  

          

Jordan before you so speedily dispatch the UN up here to Canadian soil you might consider what would happen to all the American citizens working there.

I suspect it amounts to the best part of a tidy few people you wish to send to the unemployment lines.

  

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JordanSat Jun-21-08 09:46 AM
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#13. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Owbist (Reply # 10)


  

          

There is no reason they could not move to Canada.

  

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jazz4freeSat Jun-21-08 01:21 PM
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#14. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Jordan (Reply # 13)
Sat Jun-21-08 01:31 PM by jazz4free

  

          

Why are you rightist ditto heads, who claim to be so enamored of democracy that you are willing to shock and awe and expend and control in its name, so damned pissed off about the location of a tiny speck of a Hyde Park soapbox for the barely enfranchised?

Would it be more convenient and less disturbing to you if all hyperbole was isolated to an edifice located somewhere on Mars?

Why for some of you is America the center of the universe only until it hurts to hear about it? America is small and fearful and infant only as long as it reflects the likes of the surrogates you habitually post here who balk at the sight of their own shadow and lack the insight to understand the enormity of, as a nation that reflects the best and worst in us, what you have done and what you are and what you must be.

A United Nations is an ideal, one we should all aspire to. It's certain we will stumble over tons of fools and wannabe Napoleons along the way, but we are wise to listen to their ravings because they are what we have been and what we are and what we may continue to be.

It is better that many candles are lighted at the center, no matter how harsh the light they shed, than to rave against the darkness that your advocates suggest be tucked conveniently away in a secluded corner of France or, equally, here in the barren Wonder-bread waste of Canada -- or, for that matter, on Mars.




  

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troy614Sat Jun-21-08 03:05 PM
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#15. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 14)
Sat Jun-21-08 03:14 PM by troy614

          

Quote:
QUOTE:


Why for some of you is America the center of the universe only until it hurts to hear about it?


I do believe America is the center of your Universe.
That and trolling.
Such a pity your talent and knowledge isn't put to use fixing Canada's problems.

  

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jazz4freeSat Jun-21-08 05:53 PM
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#21. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to troy614 (Reply # 15)
Sat Jun-21-08 05:57 PM by jazz4free

  

          

Why do you assume that it isn't?


Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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tdrippleSat Jun-21-08 04:17 PM
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#16. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 14)


          

Gotta come in to read my daily dosage of America hate. Do you ever think of anything else, James?

Terry

  

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ablibSat Jun-21-08 04:39 PM
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#17. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to tdripple (Reply # 16)


  

          

Terry and Troy! You guys should come around more often, it's nice to see ya guys here!

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeSat Jun-21-08 05:31 PM
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#18. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to tdripple (Reply # 16)
Sat Jun-21-08 05:32 PM by jazz4free

  

          

I prefer to think of it as admonishing particular misguided Americans who are in serious need of admonishment, but yes:



and,



Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)
Attachment #3, (jpg file)

  

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tdrippleSat Jun-21-08 05:34 PM
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#19. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 18)


          

Now those are two thoughts that I approve of! Shania and a cold beer. Count me in.

Terry

  

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jazz4freeSat Jun-21-08 05:38 PM
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#20. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to tdripple (Reply # 19)


  

          

You're more than welcome to the beer but Shania's all mine.

  

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LilJoeSat Jun-21-08 05:54 PM
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#22. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 20)


  

          

Stand them on their heads and they all look like sisters

LilJoe

  

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Ed W.Sat Jun-21-08 06:33 PM
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#23. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 20)


          

Ah yes, as you so ably spend every night playing with your self and your loves. Grow up little Jamey.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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jazz4freeSat Jun-21-08 06:49 PM
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#24. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 23)


  

          

Are you perchance related to Lawrence Welk? It appears from the way you write that you would share a similar speech impediment.

I understand mosquitoes are specially bad in the trailer parks this summer. You should get that porch screened in -- much easier to tune up the banjo when you have both hands free.

  

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ablibSat Jun-21-08 07:08 PM
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#25. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 24)


  

          

Trailer parks, apartment complexes...what's the diff?

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeSat Jun-21-08 07:19 PM
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#26. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to ablib (Reply # 25)


  

          

Six dogs under the porch.

  

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Ed W.Sat Jun-21-08 08:49 PM
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#28. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 26)


          

As you well know, after all they are all your loves and sit down by the creek with you as you tune your kiddies banjo.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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Ed W.Sat Jun-21-08 08:47 PM
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#27. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 24)


          

When I have to stoop down to your level at the homeless park Jamey then I may have to get a dog for a friend, that's all you have to hold as your love. You are the lowest piece of trash on this forum and continue to prove it more every day, Jamey.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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ShellyMon Jun-23-08 01:12 AM
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#30. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 27)


  

          

The above exchange is unworthy of both of you. If you do not like each other, ignore each other, but don't bore everyone else with such nonsense.

Shelly

  

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jazz4freeMon Jun-23-08 01:16 PM
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#34. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 30)


  

          

  

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ablibMon Jun-23-08 09:44 PM
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#35. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 34)


  

          

Oops? That was your norm.

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeMon Jun-23-08 10:03 PM
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#36. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to ablib (Reply # 35)


  

          

That was my attempt at an apology for my behavior, but apparently you need more.

I apologize to all I offended by my most recent infantile behavior. As I'm almost certain another occasion will present itself, in future I'll try to better control my temper when gratuitously accused of submitting drunken commentary.

  

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ablibMon Jun-23-08 10:12 PM
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#37. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 36)


  

          

Quote:
but apparently you need more.


No not at all. No apology needed. I was just making a statement that such "infantile" behavior is your norm. The place wouldn't be the same without you. Quite boring in fact.

Visit the Basement

  

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Ed W.Tue Jun-24-08 02:35 AM
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#39. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 36)


          

Quote:
I apologize to all I offended by my most recent infantile behavior. As I'm almost certain another occasion will present itself, in future I'll try to better control my temper when gratuitously accused of submitting drunken commentary.


Your apologies have all been hollow so far. It was not gratuitous, it was deserved by your comments again. Lets see how long before you do it again.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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Ed W.Wed Jun-25-08 11:04 PM
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#49. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 36)
Wed Jun-25-08 11:05 PM by Ed W.

          

Quote:
QUOTE:
That was my attempt at an apology for my behavior, but apparently you need more.

I apologize to all I offended by my most recent infantile behavior. As I'm almost certain another occasion will present itself, in future I'll try to better control my temper when gratuitously accused of submitting drunken commentary.



A very interesting article everyone could benefit from.


Quote:
I'm sorry for my bad apology ...

David Bohl is no stranger to apologies -- the good, the bad and the insincere.
Don't play the blame game and offer a back-handed apology, says one expert.

Don't play the blame game and offer a back-handed apology, says one expert.

A former Chicago securities trader and a recovering alcoholic, the 47-year-old Hartland, Wisconsin, resident spent two decades of his marriage stringing together empty promises and hollow apologies. First, because he was a workaholic, and later, because of his drinking.

"I wasn't always there for my family," Bohl says of Vicki, his wife of 24 years, and his two children. "I'd say, 'Hey, I'm going to go do something with the guys,' or, 'I'm going to do something at work. I'll be home at six for dinner.'"

Then he'd waltz in drunk or exhausted from working at 8 or 9 p.m., apologetic but ultimately unrepentant.

"When I was drinking, I was always sorry," he says. But, "it didn't mean anything. Because although I felt it and expressed it, I never took responsibility. My priorities were screwed up."

When it comes to politicians, athletes and other celebrities, apologizing has become a highly public and somewhat predictable event. Tears are shed, repentance is promised and the news cycle spins onward.

But what happens when it's a loved one or colleague who has transgressed and is apologizing? How do we judge their sincerity -- and how can the person who is apologizing win back the trust of those they've wronged?

Talk is cheap

For many people, a promise never to repeat the offense often constitutes the most important aspect of an apology, says Nick Smith, an assistant professor of philosophy at the University of New Hampshire and author of "I Was Wrong: The Meanings of Apologies." But, he adds, promises are just that -- only promises.

"The ultimate meaning of apologies, like the meaning of promises, depends on future behavior," Smith says, "and therefore we cannot conclusively judge them at the moment they are spoken."

Smith cites former New York Gov. Elliot Spitzer's public apology after it was revealed that he'd allegedly patronized a high-priced prostitution service: " We will have a much better sense of the meaning of apologies if we check in with him in 10 years."

In other words, it's up to the person who is apologizing to put their words into action, says Stephen Xavier, founder of Cornerstone Executive Development Group in West Lake Village, California, who's been coaching Fortune 500 executives on communications skills (including how to apologize) since 1987.

"You really have to ask the person what they expect you to do to make amends," Xavier says. Offer a solution if you can, whether it's paying for a fragile item you broke in a friend's home or absorbing the overnight shipping charges when you miss a professional deadline. For more serious misdeeds like an affair, he says, that means ending it immediately and seeking counseling.

Rebecca Hastings, 44, a mother of two, uses this restitution tactic to keep the peace in her home. Teaching her daughters, Ashley, 12, and Alex, 15, to suggest "appropriate consequences" when they've treated one another badly or lied about their homework being done has reduced the number of necessary apologies in her household.

"I ask them what they would do if they were the mom," says Hastings, who works as a Web writer for a professional association in the Washington, D.C. area. "Giving up allowance is a popular option."

The "back-handed apology"

Playing the blame game or not owning up to one's mistakes are the worst ways to apologize, Smith says. Phrases like "I am sorry that X bothers you" and "I am sorry you feel that way" won't win you any points in the forgiveness department.

"Like a back-handed compliment -- 'You are much less annoying today than usual' -- we might describe these as back-handed apologies," he says.

Rather than place blame or make excuses, Xavier suggests offering an honest explanation as soon as humanly possible before the wrongdoing "festers with people."

"If people understand the circumstance they tend to be a lot more forgiving," he says. "You're going to be embarrassed, but so what?"

This is what Eva Rosenberg, who's been a tax preparer for 35 years, did when she recently discovered she'd made a mistake on a client's 2006 tax return that caused her client to overpay by $1,300

Her client was "grateful" for her taking responsibility for the mistake, says the 55-year-old Northridge, California resident. She apologized, and is filing an amended tax return on the client's behalf, gratis. The IRS, she says, will refund the money, plus interest.

The repeat offender

But what about the chronic apologizer? Can someone with Bohl's track record ever offer an effective apology?

"If someone is always coming and apologizing, it's more than appropriate to say, 'We've got to talk. This is the sixth or eighth time you've been to me making these excuses or apologies. What's going on?'" Xavier says.

Rather than point fingers or try to shame the sheepish party, he says, help them find a way to eliminate the problem, be it missed deadlines or broken personal commitments.

Ultimately, though, it's up to the person doing the apologizing to change their ways. For Bohl, who's been sober three years and now works as a life coach, the solution was to get out of the high-pressure finance industry and undergo substance-abuse treatment.

"While I was doing well professionally and financially, I sunk to a new low when I woke up and realized that I couldn't get my kids' birthday celebrations back; they may hit milestones without me and I would eventually become a name on a birth certificate instead of a father who was involved in their special memories," Bohl says.

He's also won back the trust of his family and learned to issue an apology that sticks.

"The key is changing your behavior before you actually utter the words," he says.

Since doing so, not only has he won back the trust of his family, he's learned to issue an apology that sticks.

"The key is changing your behavior before you actually utter the words," he says.



Many times immediate apologies are given just because it is expected of someone. Sometimes it is better to think about it before you offer one rather than have to offer another one in the near future.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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jazz4freeWed Jun-25-08 11:33 PM
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#50. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 49)


  

          

Piss off!

  

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ablibThu Jun-26-08 12:04 AM
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#51. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 50)


  

          

You don't really get mad at these online exchanges, do you?

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeThu Jun-26-08 12:15 AM
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#52. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to ablib (Reply # 51)


  

          

Rarely.

  

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ablibThu Jun-26-08 12:21 AM
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#53. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 52)


  

          

Visit the Basement

  

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Ed W.Thu Jun-26-08 12:46 AM
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#54. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 50)


          

Quote:
"The key is changing your behavior before you actually utter the words," he says.


I am truly sorry you said that James. I meant it as something WE could all learn from and be better off in the future. I honestly hoped you would take it to heart, but I see you could care less.

Myself, I would like to apologize for playing the little childish game with you and to anyone else that was offended by it. I have not often engaged in such a petty childish behavior in the over 10 years in this forum. I just finished reading over some exchanges Al and I had back in 1998, it was such a refreshing time back then. I will not be engaging you in further childish games, if others do, look at how you treat others. If comments on alcohol offend you, you should not be using those same words in so many of your replies. That makes it just part of everyday forum banter.

Shelly, I apologize to you and for you having to come back to this. I had gotten very sick of Jame's behavior after silently reading his entries these last months. I actually found it rather difficult to lower down to the childish writings as I thought it was very plain to see. I have known you long enough now to know how you are and how you treat people. It is a little hard sometimes to not comment after you have put someone down for the 10th time, to me, that is when you show more class by just ignoring them. But, in the end, that is your choice and your right. Your hands are not totally clean yourself. We fought on the same side for that right.

Let's move on to the future and hope everyone is mature enough to keep this forum going forward.



Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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ShellyThu Jun-26-08 01:19 AM
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#55. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 54)


  

          

I'm just a crotchety old bastard, have been for the last century or so. Aye, we did fight on the same side to our everlasting credit.

Shelly

  

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troy614Thu Jun-26-08 01:33 AM
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#56. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 54)


          

Well stated Ed.
I am also guilty of letting him get under my skin,and losing my patience.
Although I am trying to be more civil.

  

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jazz4freeThu Jun-26-08 10:38 AM
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#58. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to troy614 (Reply # 56)


  

          

Thanks to you, also. I'm sure your forbearance will one day receive it's just reward.

  

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jazz4freeThu Jun-26-08 10:29 AM
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#57. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 54)


  

          

Your lecture was most enlightening. I thank you for your obviously sincere interest in both the rehabilitation of my character and the welfare of this forum.

Obviously, I can't speak to how much more adult and civil things were here in the old days, as I wasn't a witness. With only four years and four thousand submissions I'm still the new kid in town. But I'll take your word that things, certainly from your perspective and the perspective of those of similar sensibility, were much more amenable.

Personally, I find life to be more interesting (without doubt much more stimulating) when I'm in the company of persons of diverse temperament. The crotchety but brilliant old man, the sanctimonious preacher, the kindly matron, the nurturing mother, the devoted family man, the avid star gazer, the artist, the scientist, the arm-chair general, the village idiot, the class clown, the voluble pedant and the quiet scholar, the neighborhood scold and the shambling town drunk each has, I think, his or her place on the stage of this grand old soap opera. And maybe each has a lesson for us.

And, I don't know about you, but depending on which side of the bed I swing my leg out of in the morning, I find something of all those characters, and many others, in myself.

So, I'm sorry that my manner at times offends you. But consider this -- perhaps the (at-heart friendly) banter that on occasion is exchanged between someone like myself and the Whipper is the 2008 version of the fondly remembered exchanges you had with your buddy ten years back -- and, hopefully, it will be me ten years from now complaining about some jackass who has dragged himself in here from the other side of the tracks and lowered the bar another notch.

Anyhow, peace and tranquility -- but maybe not too much tranquility.

  

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ShellyThu Jun-26-08 02:59 PM
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#59. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 57)


  

          

As I recall, it could get a little testy during election years back then too. Al and I had some legendary, though civil battles.

Shelly

  

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Paul DThu Jun-26-08 04:42 PM
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#60. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 59)


  

          

And Al and I had some not at all civil battles in which the arrogant asshole gratuitously and with no valid cause attacked my family, about whom he knew nothing.

Pardon me if I don't share the rose-coloured general view of that particular individual.




Paul D

  

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ablibThu Jun-26-08 04:45 PM
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#61. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 59)


  

          

Oh and they were good! That was someone who could give you a run for your money. Good times back then.


No offense Paul..

Visit the Basement

  

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npmclThu Jun-26-08 04:49 PM
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#62. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to ablib (Reply # 61)


  

          

Wouldn't it be great if we could get back to the subject of this thread.

  

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ablibThu Jun-26-08 04:52 PM
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#63. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 62)


  

          

I disagreed with the original poster so the thread disinterested me. James' rantings? Very interesting!

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeThu Jun-26-08 06:07 PM
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#64. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to ablib (Reply # 63)


  

          

Rantings! Rantings!!

Wadda ya mean, rantings?

  

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Ed W.Tue Jun-24-08 02:29 AM
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#38. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 30)


          

Shelly, when he ceases putting down everyone that doesn't agree with him then maybe that can happen. When he doesn't know what he is talking about he stoops to his juvenile antics. It doesn't help when he says the powers to be allow him to do this.

I have a suggestion, why don't YOU join us in not putting everyone down as you have for years. You always say you can write anything you want, no one is telling you what to do. That means everyone else can do the same as it is normal. Time for you to turn over a new leaf before the elections get here.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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ablibTue Jun-24-08 02:54 AM
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#40. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 38)


  

          

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeTue Jun-24-08 08:41 AM
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#41. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 38)


  

          

To begin with, your comment on my drinking was indeed gratuitous. It was dragged in from left field and could in no way be justified in connection with the civil discussion (disagreement on an issue) I thought we were having up until then. I'll go further and characterize it, apparently, as an eruption of some long held deep resentment. Secondly, your suggestive comment on my relationship with one of the lady members was way out of line, not to mention completely without foundation. Also, I feel my behavior here is no more or less egregious (perhaps more aggressive and confrontational that some) than that of others, and the two times in four years I've gone over the top the extent that a moderator has asked me to pull in my horns I've obliged and apologized. Something we've yet to get from you.

And lastly, I have been and will continue to be more than happy to match wits with you or your peers until the cows come home, but I'll do it a way of my choosing. If my method was not somewhat effective, I'm sure you would be voicing no complaint. And if you and your rightist buddies are upset by it, I'm probably doing something right.

I'll allow you the last word on this (should you wish) because this is certainly mine.




  

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ShellyTue Jun-24-08 01:38 PM
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#42. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 38)


  

          

When you come here with clean hands you will have earned the right to complain about the dirt under my finger nails. You lacked even the decency to to recognize and show any contrition for your part in the childish exchange above. There are those here I hold in contempt, and they have repeatedly earned it. Some have been here for over ten years, they could have been excluded long ago but I just let them know how I feel from time to time. I am neither a liar nor a hypocrite, I despise stupidity and say so. Better to have a thick skin than a thick head.

I will match my contributions here against anyone, anytime.

Shelly

  

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Ed W.Wed Jun-25-08 12:43 AM
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#43. "RE: Move the Useless Notion to Canada"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 42)


          

Quote:
You lacked even the decency to to recognize and show any contrition for your part in the childish exchange above.


Not entirely true Shelly. Those were just quick words from the KB, too many toss out quick apologies which mean nothing, proven here many times before. Those earlier exchanges were just childish words matching a childish commentary being fired around, not what was really in my mind as you should know by now. I shall return when the VA finishes the emergency work they are doing at my house today and the next day or two. Auto CPAP, air conditioning, and many others so I can breath again. MG is a real fun time.

I am glad you finally got back, I couldn't have kept that childish stuff going much longer.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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