Britons defend their health care from US criticism

Aug 14, 1:11 PM (ET)

By MEERA SELVA

LONDON (AP) - Britons reacted with outrage Friday at American criticism of the country's health care system and defended their cradle-to-grave medical coverage on Twitter, television and in the tabloids.

Right-wing attacks on President Barack Obama's health reform plans have struck a nerve in Britain, where residents broadly take for granted their universal coverage under the state-funded National Health Service - and look askance at the millions of Americans without insurance.

"Land of the Fee," declared the Daily Mirror in reference to the United States' high-charging health model. The London newspaper called the "lies and distortions" being circulated in the United States about the National Health Service "truly sickening."

"Jaw droppingly untruthful," said the British Medical Association's chairman, Hamish Meldrum.

"NHS often makes the difference between pain and comfort, despair and hope, life and death," Prime Minister Gordon Brown tweeted. "Thanks for always being there."

Even British health campaigner Kate Spall - who criticizes NHS failings in U.S. television ads produced by Conservatives for Patients' Rights, a lobby group that opposes Obama's plans - declared that the group had misled her and was distorting her true views. Spall's mother died of kidney cancer while waiting for treatment.

"There are failings in the system but I'm not anti-NHS at all," Spall told the British Broadcasting Corp.

"I help the vulnerable patients in our country that come to me for help, those that have been denied treatment," she said. "So the irony is, the people that are falling through the net in the U.S. are patients that I would support anyway."

Britain's opposition Conservative Party is distancing itself from its maverick member of European Parliament, Daniel Hannan, who has criticized the NHS on U.S. news programs.

Conservative leader David Cameron dismissed Hannan as having "eccentric views."

In an e-mail to Conservative Party workers published on his blog, Cameron said millions, including his own family, were grateful for NHS-provided care.

"Just look at all the support which the NHS has received on Twitter over the last couple of days," he wrote. "It is a reminder - if one were needed - of how proud we in Britain are of the NHS."

The NHS, founded in 1948, is the cornerstone of the United Kingdom's welfare state.

About 12 percent of the UK's 61 million residents have private insurance, but the vast majority rely on state-funded emergency care, surgery and access to family doctors. Even those who complain about the system say they want it improved, not dismantled.

British officials acknowledge that their system has been struggling to cope and faces a 15 billion pound ($24 billion) deficit. Hospitals are often overcrowded, dirty and understaffed, which means some patients do not get the care they are promised.

Shelly

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

How about the people here that get no care at all?

There is no way any kind of Health Care System for free or for pay that gives "everybody" care is going to be perfect. If "everybody" here had health insurance and money was not in the picture you would have the same thing. All people get sick at one time or another.

In this country many of the sick die because they don't have the money. At least they have a chance in those countries. They don't have to worry about loosing their homes or getting so under they need to file bankruptcy and have their lives ruined financially because of illness.

Propaganda from Insurance Company interests will make it very difficult for anybody to change our health care in this country. I wish Obama the best because he really has his work cut out for him. Our Government knows that is one of the most pressing issues in this country and if they don't soon deal with it we will all be in deep shit in the near future.

The thing is, in a nationalised system, the quality of healthcare decreases. There are many examples of such.

That is not the "thing", and there are few if any examples you could cite, assuming you wanted to post a substantive thought instead of groundless opinions.

The US spends more per capita on health care than any other nation on Earth, and we are 29th on the list of most healthy countries.

All health care in the US today is highly rationed. It is rationed by who can afford it, and by insurance companies being able to cap maximum annual and lifetime benefits. Being able to drop anyone they deem too expensive to cover, by being able to deny coverage for certain drugs, surgical procedures, or treatments, or to charge outrageous copays for them. By being able to deny coverage to anyone with pre-existing conditions, or in a risk category of developing expensive chronic conditions.

With the spread of DNA testing, that excluded group will soon rise to most of the population. Soon Insurance companies may require a DNA screening before they will grant a policy.

It is not your doctor who determines what treatment you receive. It is your insurance company. Your doctor knows what they will accept, and knows he will be dropped as a preferred provider if he prescribes what they don't like, costing him patients. Large areas of our country have no, or few doctors to go to, since there is not much money to be made in areas where patients are few and far between.

Currently Spending for health care in the US is about 16% of the Gross domestic Product (GDP) and rising at about 6% per year. Obviously, if we do not do something, at some point this century health care will consume 100% of our GDP. At some point It will require all of your annual income to buy health insurance, or you may die from your maladies.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

Still members of our congress elected to protect our interests want to again block health reform. They block it for purely political reasons. The Republicans know that if Obama can reform health care and restore economic growth they will not have a prayer of being elected to office, perhaps for a generation. Blue dog Democrats elected in normally conservative districts fear losing their seats in 2010 elections. And both Republicans and some Democrats depend upon the health industry for their re election campaign funding.

The losers are the American people, both the smart ones, and the fools who buy into the lies and propaganda. You are being lied to, and are too dumb to know it. For the most part the politicians are interested in preserving their jobs and power far more than in what is good for the country and its people.

It is not the meek, but the ignorant who will inherit the Earth... briefly.

Well, I hope you enjoy your brave new world. Thankfully, I will probably not be around to see it.

Shelly

A more realistic statement would be that SOME hospitals are overcrowded, a FEW hospitals are dirty and SOME hospitals are understaffed. The conditions in hospitals are the responsibility of local area medical trusts and vary a lot. BTW I have read a few bad news stories about some American hospitals, I'm sure that it happens in all countries occasionally.

We know that all large organisations (the UK NHS is the largest employer in Europe) can suffer from problems due to their size. However we prefer our system to yours and have no need to justify it to Americans, what you have is your choice and what we have is ours. What we do resent is blatant lies being told about the NHS which generally has been of great benefit to millions of Britons (including me) who have received high-class medical treatment which otherwise they would have been unable to afford. I hope that eventually you too can come up with a system which allows ALL Americans to receive affordable medical treatment.

Great stuff, Love.

Were I as articulate as you.

Thanks,James. There is considerable anger over here.

Visit the Basement

Adam, you might be interested in these comparisons

Yeah, I've been reading up on the numbers.

That's why when silly statements like:

Visit the Basement

You are comparing apples and oranges. You cannot compare the US mortality rate to England’s and say it is a healthcare issue. As I stated in another thread, you must account for the differences in life styles. We live and die in our cars and trucks, we drive fast motorcycles, we jump out of perfectly good airplanes, we mountain climb, and bungee jump. We have many more gun deaths due to gang violence. I am not saying that England doesn’t have their share of adrenalin junkies, but I’ll bet we outnumber theirs 3 to 1, if not more.

Johnny


Obama: “On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this can be solved, but it’s important for him to give me space,”
Obama: “This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

And you seriously think those minuscule differences would make a two year difference in life expectancy?

What you should have said is "we eat seriously fatty deep-fried oversize unhealthy meals". That's more likely to account for the difference.

MSU

You are right! I covered that in my other post. Just forgot in this one. I implied the same by saying we eat garbage! But my statement is the same, we live different lifestyles and you cannot compare the two.

Johnny


Obama: “On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this can be solved, but it’s important for him to give me space,”
Obama: “This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

.........and the Infant Mortality Rate?

Visit the Basement

Johnny


Obama: “On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this can be solved, but it’s important for him to give me space,”
Obama: “This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

Probably because they can't afford it.

Johnny


Obama: “On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this can be solved, but it’s important for him to give me space,”
Obama: “This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

My, aren't we judgmental! I suppose you never fell on on hard times. I wish you good fortune, but if not, I hope someone will help you, or show compassion instead if kick you when you are down.

Shelly

Johnny


Obama: “On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this can be solved, but it’s important for him to give me space,”
Obama: “This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

Attachment #1, (gif file)

You are a total waste of my time. This is our last communication with you.

Shelly

Here is now going on in Canada and its health care system
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw


Overhauling health-care system tops agenda at annual meeting of Canada's doctors

By Jennifer Graham (CP) – 2 days ago

SASKATOON — The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says this country's health-care system is sick and doctors need to develop a plan to cure it.

Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made.

"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

"We know that there must be change," she said. "We're all running flat out, we're all just trying to stay ahead of the immediate day-to-day demands."

The pitch for change at the conference is to start with a presentation from Dr. Robert Ouellet, the current president of the CMA, who has said there's a critical need to make Canada's health-care system patient-centred. He will present details from his fact-finding trip to Europe in January, where he met with health groups in England, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands and France.

His thoughts on the issue are already clear. Ouellet has been saying since his return that "a health-care revolution has passed us by," that it's possible to make wait lists disappear while maintaining universal coverage and "that competition should be welcomed, not feared."

In other words, Ouellet believes there could be a role for private health-care delivery within the public system.

All the countries with single payer plans that I know of are having problems like that. Britain too is running in the red.

The problem is the same as we are having in that the real cost of health care is increasing for everyone. Countries with single payer systems fund health care with taxes everyone pays. Raising the tax contribution is difficult politically just as it is here. That is why we are looking at a system for universal coverage leveraging the existing private structure, along with some method of adding the 46 million with no health care plan, either through a public plan, or an expansion of Medicare to younger members.

There are no magic ways to provide medical coverage to everyone when cost escalation can not be contained, or at least slowed down.

Shelly

Hopefully other countries will learn from the experiences and mistakes of their predecessors. We were one of the first and although our system is of great benefit to most people we are aware of its failings and are trying to rectify them but it's difficult with such an established and huge system.

Its those failings that have us worried. Your health system is huge and established, but also worrisome is that "inefficient" can often be added to those adjectives. Inefficiencies can kill.

Bottom line, as my Irish grandmother used to say; "Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't".

Ray

I haven't found it inefficient. I've fairly recently had an operation on my eye for glaucoma by a top class surgeon and it was successful and am now undergoing treatment for a broken arm. I also have an ongoing prescription for five items. I contributed all my working life (BTW the contributions also go towards pensions) and none of this treatment costs me a penny now and as a retired person I pay nothing for the prescription.

Woman gives birth on pavement 'after being refused ambulance'

By Daily Mail Reporter

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1207151/Woman-gives-birth-pavement-refused-ambulance.html#ixzz0OXkqGA3z


A young mother gave birth on a pavement outside a hospital after she was told to make her own way there.

Mother-of-three Carmen Blake called her midwife to ask for an ambulance when she went into labour unexpectedly with her fourth child.

But the 27-year-old claims she was refused an ambulance and told to walk the 100m from her house in Leicester to the city's nearby Royal Infirmary.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1207151/Woman-gives-birth-pavement-refused-ambulance.html#ixzz0OXkVshRP

Mistakes are made here as everywhere else. In most circumstances it would seen reasonable to not send an ambulance for a 100m journey but obviously mistaken in this instance. Don't make the mistake of assuming that this is typical.

I don't know why you even bothered answering to that, Love.

We could waste our time and surf around and submit thousands of similar cut and paste, equally-irrelevant horror stories that have as little to do with the American system that treats health care as a commodity to be bartered for profit as does DJC's incidental anomaly that has nothing to do with your NHC that does the opposite.

There are legitimate arguments to be made against a single-payer system. As much as I've heard, they all have to do with how it is financed.

The arguments have little to do with across-the-board quality of care and positive results. And the stats prove it.

But as long as the DJC's can weed out an example of someone under a single-payer system with a boil on his butt who reports he had to wait five minutes too long in a doctor's waiting room without his inflatable doughnut to sit on, we're gonna read about it here, or someone's gonna scream about it at a town hall meeting somewhere in the fearful bowels of a subcultural and self-destructive America.

I tell you what James hop on down to Minnesota and kiss that boil:)
If I am predictable so are you and your responses. James mistakes are certainly made, you though could be mistakes poster child.

I rest my case.

When left to your own faculties, both eloquent and perceptive, as usual.

No, that's not "what's going on" in Canada. Conservative toads have been saying that for decades... they want a two-tiered system in which the private system will eventually, and inevitably displace those who opt for the public system. I would also distrust anything like that coming from doctors, for they want to make higher salaries under a private system.

Conservatives in this country do things like spend the surplus they inherited from the previous government on tax breaks for big, wealthy corporations who scratch their backs rather than sink it into things like the health care system that will improve the lives of their people.

There is no place for American style "free market" capitalist greed in the health care system.

Also, any parrot can do a Google search and dig up something to support their ignorant position. You don't know anything about the Canadian health care system, and your opinion is worthless.

Grogan

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

Bullshit!

We are deluged with the most intimate details of your political process and how it applies to your and our public policy.

Few of you know anything of us, and you, from what you represent here, are not one of them.

Bullshit.

You live by Google and nothing else.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

I'd be surprised if 90% of Americans know what the capital of Canada is let alone how our health care works here.We are inundated with news of your health care reform scares and facts and I bet most of us with a little news reading (not Google) with a very little effort could form at least a semi informed opinion about anything that goes on in the states.Which is more than half your residents could do on any given day.

I'd be surprised if 50% of our citizens knew what the capital of the USA is.

Funny story...

Just last week someone came up to me complaining that someone created an order that was to be shipped to the "District of Columbia", because we don't ship there.

I replied, "why wouldn't we ship there"?

She replies, "we only ship to the US", in a duh type of tone.

I had to, with a straight face, tell her that the District of Columbia is Washington D.C.

Visit the Basement

You missed the point. Your opinion is worthless and we will make our decisions without it. I have lived my entire life next to the Canadian border, but I take no opinions from a bottle.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

Maybe but everyone is entitled to one read your constitution and you take the opportunity to hurl insults again.I think we all know you don't like James and pretty positive the feeling is mutual.I think we all get that.Sorry but it does get tiresome.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

The difference is, we're not offering opinions on what you should do with your medical system. The only people in this thread criticizing that are Americans. We're just objecting to being used to blindside your easily influenced populace. Britain isn't the only country sick and tired of Americans and their propaganda causing us problems at home.

That ungrateful cow that your lobbyists recruited to disparage the Canadian health care system had a slow growing cyst, that could have easily waited the 4 to 6 weeks. It was not immediately life threatening and wasn't even a benign tumor, let alone cancer. Now she's suing the government to try to recoup the $100,000 she paid for the surgery in the US. She won't get one tin dime, because it was not approved and it was not necessary for her to seek the surgery elsewhere.

Your country can do what it likes to derail Obama's efforts, but if you think you're going to stir up shit here we'll fling it right back, tenfold.

Grogan

LOL, rich coming from you.

No one here is telling you how to run your medical system. They don't want the Brit or Canadian System, they want something better if possible. We have been hearing a lot about your system long before Obama arrived on the scene, usually from the financially secure though.

We just don't need to be forced to have something done this week when no one can agree on anything.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

The lobbyists are using Canada to formulate negative propaganda against health care reform, and that brings opportunistic swine out of the woodwork in our country.

Grogan

I understand his childish vendetta must be tiresome to others, but, to be honest, I'm starting to feel almost flattered by his obsession.

He professes to be protecting the forum against the intrusion of a pretentious pseudo-intellectual, but I have a feeling he's yanking on my pigtails because he's secretly in love with me.

OK, Eddy, I give in. I'll be your date to the junior-high prom. And, if you play your cards right, you may even get lucky.

Sorry, you will have to stick to your sheep for your *love*.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

No matter how much I may crave them, Eddy, for you I forever forsake sheep. After all, what is a sheep when I can have a big wooly bear like you to hug?

You will haunt my dreams as I now realize I have haunted yours.

You have been relentless in pursuit of my affection. I know that now, and I yield to you. Your big bad bear avatar is so sexy. Growl! What a domineering gorgeous alpha male you must be in person! Send me photos. I shiver at the prospect of our lovemaking.

You may forever protest your love for me, but each time in future you insult, I know it will be but a reflection of your true feelings.

You win. I love you, Eddy. And from now on I will answer each time you reference me in this forum with this single adoring kiss.

FAG.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

Fag.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

This thread is an important discussion of a serious topic. I apologize to all for my ridiculous diversion.

I've vented my anger and I'll have no more to say that isn't relevant to the subject.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

Johnny watch out if he gets tired of your comments.

Johnny


Obama: “On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this can be solved, but it’s important for him to give me space,”
Obama: “This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

Shelly loves reason. Draw your own limited conclusion.

One small point, not expressed so far........We in the UK pay for our health service, it's called National Insurance, and it's deducted from our pay. I've had a raw deal, I paid into it (you can't opt out) all my working life, and I've only been in hospital for 2 days when I was 16 years old. So to say that the NHS is free, is a bit wide of the mark, but it does take care of the needy, and as far as friends and family are concerned I have nothing but praise for the system.
It is also true that the wealthy here very often buy private healthcare insurance, or just pay for private treatment. This is often derided as "Queue Jumping", but it is their choice to pay. We do not have a "Soviet Style system", on the whole it works very well, but somebody famous once mentioned, "The British National Health System is so wonderful, that nobody else in the world has tried to copy it!"
Obama is right, you don't want a British system, you want an American system, the reason is clear, we have the same language but a very different social history.
Cheers,
Richard.
Computer Specs here:- http://www.yachtcha.com/Specs.html
Website http://www.yachtcha.com
Its nice to be important, but its important to be nice

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Visit the Basement

Your turn will come!

With private insurance here, there are incentives to join before your 30th birthday.

All insurance public or private depend on a large pool of members some of whom are recipients of a great deal of claims and some who receive none. That is why large companies in the US can buy insurance much more cheaply than a small business can. The larger the pool the more the risk is spread. My company pays much higher premiums for insurance than a large company with thousands of employees. If small companies could join cooperatives of other small companies regionally or nationally, it would end this premium inequity.

That is why any reform of health care must include universal participation in order to work. If we have near 100% participation, the young and healthy subsidize the the older participants suffering more health problems. That is fair since we all continue to age and the young today will benefit from the young members when they are old.

The cost of health insurance in the US has gone up 70% since 2001, and continues to increase at about three times the rate of inflation. This is simply unsustainable. Eventually insurance will be out of anyones reach. Everyone knows this, which is why doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and even insurance companies are supporting health care reform this time. One of the problems is that each of these groups is jockeying for an advantage in any final plan.

Statistically, seventy percent of health care claims occur in the last year of life.

Shelly

And here's another example of an evil socialist public health system:-

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/meet-queensland-healths-million-dollar-patient-20090818-eoys.html

Motorbike crash victim Simon Wood owes his life to 200 medical professionals.

And the 42-year-old father of two, left seriously injured when his bike ran off the road at Balmoral six months ago, wants to thank every one of the doctors, nurses, paramedics, physios and occupational therapists who brought him back to good health.

"I can't thank them enough," he says.

Mr Wood, dubbed the million dollar man because of the estimated medical costs incurred in treating and rehabilitating him, said he couldn't remember the accident itself.

Anyone looking at him dressed in business clothes and a tie, walking freely and talking light-heartedly about his recovery, would be forgiven for underestimating the injuries he sustained in February.

But the extent of the damage becomes clearer when Mr Wood rolls up his sleeves and takes off his shirt to show the waiting media some of his 12 scars.

His injuries read like a list of body parts in a biology textbook: head, spine, arms, ribs, lungs, liver, kidneys.

The Chermside resident spent nearly four weeks in intensive care at the Princess Alexandra Hospital, followed by a further six-week stint in the hospital's trauma centre to undergo a series of operations.

A motorbike enthusiast with 27 years of riding experience, Mr Wood says he wasn't speeding or fatigued when the "freak accident" happened.

Now, thanks to the public health system, he's made a remarkable recovery.

What? No comment, anyone?

Here's another one.

I shall for the umpteenth time relate the tale of the treatment my granddaughter received under Australia's evil socialist medical system. Quite a few of you have heard this before, but it bears repeating.

Three days after she was born, Ash showed severe distress and was taken to her local hospital, about 50 miles from Brisbane. Within 30 minutes, she was on a helicopter en route to a Brisbane major hospital specialising in cardiac care, where she remained for the rest of her life - 3 months. During that time, she underwent major cardiac surgery twice with the best paediatric cardiologists in the state, as well as some minor procedures. Furthermore she spent all her life in intensive care, with a one on one nurse 24/7.

During all that time, the only cost to her parents was for parking in the hospital car park. They were even provided with beds if they wanted to stay overnight.

Sadly it was all in vain and she passed away at three months, but it was most certainly not because of any lack of attention or dedication by any or all of the medical staff involved.

I haven't heard that story before, Paul.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Top notch medical care obviously happens here, only here the bill can put you back into the hospital.

Visit the Basement

Eight years ago, Adam. Time has largely healed the wounds. But thankyou.

That's a damned shame that she didn't make it after all their efforts, Paul. It sounds like she got the best of care.

My sister and baby niece were visiting my parents on their boat, in a remote location (serviceable over land only by a 40 mile long road, unbelievably winding around rock formations, to get to the highway where the nearest hospital would still be an hour away). A few days into the visit, the baby got ill and developed a high fever. On contacting the hospital to inform that they were going to rush the baby in by car, they sent not an ambulance but a medical helicopter to pick up baby and mother and brought them to the hospital. Totally unexpected. All for an evil fee of $0.00

Hell, I wouldn't even have my wonderful nephew if not for our health care system. My sister had a complicated pregnancy with him, with severe risk of hemorrhaging. Abortion was suggested for her own safety but instead she got monitored carefully (to the hospital at every sign of bleeding) and got to spend the last 6 weeks of her pregnancy in a private room in a specialized pre-natal care ward at a hospital in the city. There's no way she could have afforded that kind of care, for 6 weeks, if it was coming out of pocket.

I'd be motherless too if not for our system.

I'm very thankful. (which is why I get angry when I see ignorami running their mouths)

I'm sure that you, me and anyone in our countries could describe many more first hand accounts of family members and others that we know who have gotten marvelous care, without life ruining medical bills under our health care systems.

Grogan

Don't be so pessimistic.

Let me explain some politics. The Democrats have an 87 seat majority in the House of Representatives. They have 40 Blue Dog Democrats who will not vote for a plan with a public option, but they have 100 Liberal Democrats who will not support a bill without a public option.

Guess what? The final House bill will include a public option.

There are forty Republicans in the Senate, and 60 Democrats but will require 60 votes to pass. Senator Kennedy will probably be too ill to vote, but the two Republican Senators from Maine will probably vote in favor of the Health Care bill. The Senate bill will probably not have a public option though.

The bills will go to a House-Senate conference to reconcile the two bills and the final joint bill will probably have the public option restored, and be sent to the President for signing.

Damn, I love politics!

Shelly

You and ex-Governor Howard Dean of Vermont share a similar prognosis.

Let's hope you're both right.

I did not realize that was a personal story when I read it. My condolences, what a tragic event.

Shelly

Sorry Paul I succumbed to the mind numbing bull.It seems the fear mongers in the states can dredge up all that is bad about our system,your system and the UK's system.Instead of figuring out how to make it better they just want to dismiss it out of turn because they got their ass kicked in an election.They have no ones interests in mind except their own and the poor and under insured in America be damned and thanks to a recession that number is increasing daily.I just hope none of them find themselves in that position.

This is not a good place to get sick. All you people singing the praises of USA Health Care need to loose your insurance for one reason or another and you can kiss your ass goodbye. IT sucks here if your not wealthy.

"The United States leaves the health of its citizens at the mercy of an expensive, patchwork system where some get great care while others get none at all."

That empty bed in the hospital is empty because some other poor soul can not afford it and could be dieing to provide you with it.

A few facts about health care in the USA.
http://yesmagazine.org/issues/health-care-for-all/1498

Visit the Basement

I do not see how government care will do away with patronage, or the ability to pay if you can. For everyone else, thru time , rationing and quality will be more of an issue.

Regardless of what system is in use. I can not see how we could possibly have more rationing of care than we have now under the present system. Anyone without good insurance, or wealth, is rationed, they go without care. Anyone with a pre-existing serious condition, or chronic condition can not buy good insurance at any price.

I have good insurance through my employment, from Blue Cross/Blue Shield, supposedly a non profit. There are medications that they simply will not pay for. For those they will pay for they have three levels of copay, lowest for generic medications, double for branded medications, and almost double again for expensive branded medications for which there are cheaper alternatives. My doctor has to submit a letter saying the expensive med is medically necessary before I am allowed to buy it at the highest copay which is $50 for a months supply. That is rationing of care!

I have a friend who has the BC/BS plan provided by the US government, through her husband who is a retired Navy civilian employee. That is probably the best private insurance plan available in the US. the same one members of Congress have. She gets a medication I never could. She has cancer, and one of her drugs is $8,000 per dose. They pay it after she satisfies a huge deductible. She got married specifically to get that insurance. Had she not, she would be dead today.

The only people for whom medical care is good in this country are young healthy people who don't need it. I know because I have been in both categories.

Do you know why my friends life saving medicine is $8,000 per dose? It is because the pharmaceutical companies know that a person will pay any price they can to stay alive, and because those same companies were allowed to write the laws that forbid the government to bargain for the price of drugs, by the members of Congress that they have bought and paid for lock, stock, and barrel with campaign contributions.

So keep telling me what a great free market system we have. But don't expect me to be stupid enough to believe it.

Shelly

http://yesmagazine.org/issues/health-care-for-all/1503

If you had something important here, your family doctor would most likely fit you in quickly too. Maybe the same day. They reserve time spots for that sort of thing and it won't kill someone to wait 10 minutes because they've juggled their schedule a bit.

I have a doctor right now that makes appointments for two weeks or a month away for things like "checkups" because there are people with more important concerns. As far as I'm concerned, this doctor is too good for me. I prefer a doctor that just leaves me alone like my old doctor who retired lol ("I was in perfect health before I met you!") Right now I've got it to the point where I'll see her next time I need something (e.g. another 10 years), but at the start she had me going in for all kinds of tests and stuff. She's very thorough.

Also, depending on where you live (if not in a big city) the wait for medical attention at a hospital emergency department may not be very long. If you are able, there's nothing stopping you from driving to one of these hospitals.

Grogan

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/ian-birrell-why-i-dont-believe-that-the-nhs-is-sacrosanct-1775088.html

Ian Birrell: Why I don't believe that the NHS is sacrosanct

In this heartfelt polemic, based on his family's experiences in the health service, our writer argues that it suffers from deep flaws – and we are wrong to ignore them

This comparrison chart is very revealing.

http://yesmagazine.org/issues/health-care-for-all/1515

Shelly

For anyone interested.
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/aboutnhs/Pages/About.aspx