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Hank52Fri Dec-14-12 06:29 PM
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"Here We Go Again"
Fri Dec-14-12 06:52 PM by Hank52

  

          

It's getting real sad when that is the first thing a lot of people were thinking, including me.

School Shooting In Connecticut: \'27 Killed\'

Want to bet he had an Assault rifle?

I suppose, the NRA solution to this is "Give every kid a hand-gun and this won't ever happen again."

The body count is almost getting to be as High as Afghanistan.

When is the Government going to say, Enough is Enough.

Update: Heard on the news that this is a Record breaker for the most Murders.

Not something to be proud of though.

Ken:

  

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Paul DFri Dec-14-12 08:23 PM
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#1. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 0)


  

          


You don't need an assault rifle to murder unarmed women and pre-school kids.



Paul D

  

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Hank52Fri Dec-14-12 09:25 PM
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#2. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 1)
Fri Dec-14-12 09:27 PM by Hank52

  

          

It was reported that this is one of the weapons he used.

You don't need one of these for "Protection". ... or deer hunting.

Edit: It's only purpose is for "Killing" human beings.

.223 Bushmaster



Ken:

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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ablibFri Dec-14-12 09:56 PM
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#4. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 2)


  

          

As it turns out (according to the last report I read), the Bushmaster was left in the car, and the killer did it all with 2 hand guns.

There is no law, or suppression of freedom of speech, that could be enacted that would make a nut job go un-nutty.

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeFri Dec-14-12 10:20 PM
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#5. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 4)


  

          

This one literally made me feel physically ill.

You're right about the nutters, but perhaps they would cause a little less heartache if they were armed only with sling shots.

  

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Hank52Fri Dec-14-12 11:48 PM
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#6. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 5)


  

          

Quote:
This one literally made me feel physically ill.


You're right jazz, I felt the same way. I nothing else comes of this, I hope they'll (Gov.) wake up an smell the Roses. It's one thing to kill "Murder" an adult, .. but to Murder 20 - 5 to 10 year old kids?

Where do you draw they line?

I'm not Religious .. I'm going to say a prayer tonight.

MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Ken:

  

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bobboFri Dec-14-12 11:58 PM
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#7. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 5)


  

          

Quote:
This one literally made me feel physically ill.

Exactly my reaction. I am totally drained of emotion.

  

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Paul DSat Dec-15-12 06:36 PM
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#21. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 4)


  

          


So what! He still had one, apparently legally. Why?



Paul D

  

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MSUSat Dec-15-12 07:29 PM
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#27. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 21)


  

          

It was his mother's gun. In fact all of them were. He took them from her.

MSU

  

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Paul DSat Dec-15-12 09:33 PM
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#33. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 27)


  

          


I know that. I didn't ask how, I asked why? I'm still struggling to understand why military style Assault rifles are legal for private citizens.



Paul D

  

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MSUSat Dec-15-12 10:14 PM
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#37. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 33)


  

          

I answered why he had one. It was because he took it from his mother. It cracks me up when people go by how a gun looks. You can get BB guns that look like military weapons.

MSU

  

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Paul DSat Dec-15-12 10:26 PM
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#39. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 37)


  

          


No. That's still HOW, not WHY? WHY did his mother have one? That doesn't just look like an assault weapon, it IS an assault weapon, and there is no reason a responsible private citizen would need one. And that includes the shooter's unfortunate mother who has paid the ultimate price for owning it.



Paul D

  

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MSUSat Dec-15-12 10:45 PM
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#41. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 39)


  

          

You're right, it is. My BB gun comment was just a side note that I didn't preface correctly before saying it.

MSU

  

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jasonlevineTue Dec-18-12 02:35 AM
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#81. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 39)


  

          

I'm trying to figure that out too. The weapon he used to kill most of the children was a semi-automatic assault rifle with clips that hold 100 bullets. What legal use does this gun serve? Hunting? (If you need 100 rapid-fire rounds to take down a deer, just buy your venison in the store.) Self-defense? (Are you expecting 50 burglars to break in at the same time?)

I can think of no possible reason to own a weapon like this. The only reason for this weapon is to kill a lot of people in a short time without rendering yourself "defenseless" while you reload often.

- Jason Levine
Please donate to PCQandA!

  

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Ed W.Tue Dec-18-12 03:49 AM
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#83. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 81)


          

Not sure where you got your information Jason. The assault weapon he used takes a magazine. He used 30 round magazines. The weapon is not used for hunting, it is used for target practice. There is no reason at all for them to be available except for the military and law enforcement.

Here in NY they are banned. The Federal law banning them in 1994 had a sunset clause and it expired in 2004. The New York State law of 1994 had no sunset clause. NY also bans magazines (clips, etc) that hold over 10 rounds. Neither law banned the weapons owned prior to 1994. NY does not allow those to be sold or transferred. I can sit on my back deck and hear a neighbor using his on and off all year.

Powerful semiautomatic pistols are not banned at all. Except for NY and a couple other states extended clips can be used. They also can hold from 15 to 30 rounds. The killer had both types of weapons and clips which are legal at this time. They can ban assault rifles and large capacity clips but it will not cover handguns. A trained person can fire 10 rounds with a handgun, eject and insert a new clip and not skip a beat. The only hope someone has is for the weapon to jam.

It is not an easy situation to deal with and the White House is already admitting they cannot change anything quick or easy.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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jbmcmillanTue Dec-18-12 06:45 PM
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#84. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 83)


          

There is no quick or easy "fix" but it doesn't mean an attempt shouldn't be made.Hand gun laws should be tightened as well as assault style guns and extended clips.Plus actually enforcing the laws that already exist.The debate will rage on and hopefully some of your people in office actually have the balls to start doing something about it.

  

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Ed W.Tue Dec-18-12 09:47 PM
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#85. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jbmcmillan (Reply # 84)


          

I have said all along that there should be changes. What we don't need are knee jerk reactions on either side. The sales of weapons, especially assault style, skyrocketed Saturday after the shooting. Several states set records for background checks. The same happened for high capacity magazines and ammunition. The same thing happened in 2008 after President Obama was elected. As I said several times there is no need for high powered assault style weapons except for military and law enforcement personnel. Our laws and the huge money from the lobbies makes change difficult. Neither are going away.

We are dealing with a population of 315 million people here which makes things a lot harder. Having immediate family members that had to process the Aurora scene makes me cringe when these things happen. I know what they are up against every day.

I have a half dozen weapons that I have no intention of giving up in my lifetime.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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jazz4freeTue Dec-18-12 10:38 PM
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#86. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 85)


  

          

Quote:
The sales of weapons, especially assault style, skyrocketed Saturday after the shooting. Several states set records for background checks. The same happened for high capacity magazines and ammunition.


Get their names!

Apparently, not everyone in America is bat shit crazy. Sane folks have had enough.

I understand similar things to this are happening, or are planned, in cities across your nation: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/S-F-Oakland-gun-buyback-nets-hundreds-4121621.php

  

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Ed W.Tue Dec-18-12 11:18 PM
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#87. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 86)
Tue Dec-18-12 11:48 PM by Ed W.

          

Those have been going on for years all over. It does get rid of a lot of junk and non working guns. You won't find many with a nice gun doing it when they can get a lot more cash privately with no restrictions. A lot of guns are only worth a few bucks so they sell them for more so they can get a better gun. A few do it for the right reason. Do you have any you would like to get rid of?

Buffalo keeps having the buybacks and the almost daily shootings just keep going on.

Edit:

No Questions Asked, Pre-Paid Cash Cards for Guns

BUFFALO—Mayor Byron W. Brown today announced that 746 firearms were handed in during his 5th Buffalo Gun Buyback Program, the second highest total of the gun buybacks conducted since 2006. The program was designed to get illegal weapons off the street, and is a piece of Buffalo’s overall strategy to reduce crime.

The past four gun buyback efforts have yielded a total of 2,951 guns turned in by city residents. Participants received over $100,000 through pre-paid credit card incentives, distributed at each drop-off location.

This initiative is one of several anti-crime measures being implemented throughout the city, including the newly created Operation Strike Force, which in its first fifty days removed 14 illegal guns and made 957 arrests. The city’s highly successful surveillance camera system will also be expanded by 40 in 2012, bringing the number of cameras to 165 cameras citywide.

“I want to thank Buffalo residents for their continued participation in our Gun BuyBack program, and encourage them to continue their involvement in ridding our streets of illegal weapons,” said Mayor Brown.
“This year’s Gun BuyBack will continue to assist in our efforts to reduce the overall crime rate in the City of Buffalo.”

The overall Gun BuyBack effort is financed by asset forfeiture funds that have been acquired by the city through the seizure of monies from illegal drug and other criminal activities in Buffalo.

“I also want to thank the faith-based organizations and their respective pastors for participating in this year’s Gun BuyBack program,” said Mayor Brown. “I commend their commitment to the safety of our city. My Administration has been committed to improving safety and quality of life, and I will continue to support law enforcement initiatives that will make Buffalo an excellent place to live, work and raise a family.”

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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ablibSat Dec-15-12 10:28 PM
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#40. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 33)


  

          

I still don't understand how making a certain type of gun illegal, would prevent any of this.

We have pro-gun people who say more guns are the answer, and we have the anti-gun people who somehow think banning military style rifles prevents nut jobs from bringing a handgun to a school.

The bottom line here is there is no way to prevent this. No one wants to say that or admit it, but that's life, I guess.


Visit the Basement

  

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Paul DSat Dec-15-12 11:04 PM
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#42. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 40)


  

          


Then why aren't events like this commonplace elsewhere?



Paul D

  

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ablibSun Dec-16-12 06:34 AM
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#48. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 42)


  

          

I personally believe, it's because we are nuttier, stupider (yes I know it's not a word), and more selfish than other societies.

Visit the Basement

  

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Paul DSun Dec-16-12 08:06 AM
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#49. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 48)


  

          


I have no comeback to that!



Paul D

  

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jazz4freeSun Dec-16-12 11:07 AM
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#50. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 48)


  

          

Well, surprise, surprise -- James does have a comeback. And a wordy one, at that.

The cultures of the US and Canada reflect one another. We live cheek to jowl, have adjoining bedrooms and share the same bathroom. Sometimes even mistakenly use the same toothbrush. Per capita, our fat people are as numerous and fat as yours and our crazy people are as numerous and just as bat shit crazy. And, I for one am so selfish that I throw a room-clearing tantrum when I don't get the indicated Christmas present.

We also have an equal share of hunters and enthusiasts, skeet and target shooters, collectors, etc. As does yours, both our law enforcement and more than a few of the criminally-inclined have and carry guns.

The ratio of injury, accident and death by firearms here in Canada is outrageously lower than yours.

The difference: Regulation. We Canadians have to jump through legal hoops to obtain and own our firearms. It's a royal pain in the ass, so most don't bother.

So, all the folks who hang scabby moose heads on the wall, and those who prefer blowing apart clay pigeons of a weekend to beer and bowling, and those who get their fix by fondling the stocks and barrels of rare blunderbusses and such, they are kept content. On the other hand, the little woman who hears a mysterious bump in the night cannot on a whim the next morning wander down to the nearest Guns Are Us and pick up a Glock and some armor-piercing ammo along with a quart of milk and a granola bar.

Regulation, regulation, regulation... Also, should we ever be tempted to relax the old regulatory guard, we have only to glance southward to witness what the result would be.

The British aren't coming, all the bears and marauding red men have been terminated with extreme prejudice, and you have the finest government that big money can buy. So, maybe it's time to interpret your 2nd amendment a little more sanely. For the sake of the children? All you gun guys have to do is turn the macho volume control down a notch or two. It won't hurt all that much.

  

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bobboSun Dec-16-12 02:28 PM
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#51. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 50)
Sun Dec-16-12 03:11 PM by bobbo

  

          

I borrowed your post and pasted it on another forum. I hope you don't mind. This is from that forum:



Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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jazz4freeSun Dec-16-12 04:06 PM
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#52. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to bobbo (Reply # 51)


  

          

I'm flattered. Glad you thought it worth the trouble.

  

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basa48Sun Dec-16-12 04:10 PM
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#53. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 52)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
I'm flattered. Glad you thought it worth the trouble.


Yours was an excellent and rational post - however I do think you are pissing into the wind

Tone
Tone

  

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ablibSun Dec-16-12 04:22 PM
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#54. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 50)


  

          

Oh, how I do miss your well written replies. It's almost poetic.

However, there is no regulation that would have prevented this latest incident, nor the one last July in Aurora, CO. Just using these two as examples because they're at the top of my head. I too can't go down to the local gunnery and purchase a gun on the spot after a spat with the missus.

We are not the same. Granted, I've never been to Canada, but the stereotype here is that that you are all disgustingly nice and civil. Too nice. Almost like the British.

We are, and I'll quote a Canadian friend of mine, "gun toting maniacs". I'll have to agree with her on that one. You guys are just gun toting, moose shooting, Molson drinkers.

Visit the Basement

  

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MSUSun Dec-16-12 06:10 PM
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#55. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 54)


  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:I too can't go down to the local gunnery and purchase a gun on the spot after a spat with the missus.

Yeah, I don't know where people get the idea that we can just go into a gun store and buy any gun we'd like on the spot and take it home right then and there. The last gun I bought was a double barrel shotgun for hunting. Two shots then reload. I had to wait 4 days even for that.

MSU

  

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Ed W.Sun Dec-16-12 06:48 PM
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#56. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 55)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
QUOTE:I too can't go down to the local gunnery and purchase a gun on the spot after a spat with the missus.

Yeah, I don't know where people get the idea that we can just go into a gun store and buy any gun we'd like on the spot and take it home right then and there. The last gun I bought was a double barrel shotgun for hunting. Two shots then reload. I had to wait 4 days even for that.

They read it on the internet so it must be true. I have no problem with them doing away with assault rifles and large capacity clips. They belong to the military and law enforcement. But I do believe it can only be done for future purchases, not retroactively. Will it make much of a difference, I doubt it.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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jbmcmillanSun Dec-16-12 06:59 PM
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#57. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 55)


          

But did you have to take a gun safety course or go for an interview with the local cops to see if you get a license?What is the 4 days for a cooling off period?Not being a smart ass just curious what the steps are.I know this won't give me a complete picture as your gun laws vary widely from state to state.

  

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MSUSun Dec-16-12 07:53 PM
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#59. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jbmcmillan (Reply # 57)


  

          

Had a my gun safety course 35 years ago. No need for another one. No interview with the police. Never even heard of that for hunting weapons. It was more of a cooling off period I suppose. You don't need a license for hunting weapons. At least not where I live. Laws vary from state to state. I don't even need a license for my hand guns. I do however need a permit to carry a handgun if I so choose. That requires a trip to the Sheriff's office and a State Police and FBI background check. I can also take a handgun to a shooting range in a case without a carry permit or use one (if big enough) for hunting without a carry permit as long as it's not concealed. The carry permit is if I want to be packing all the time. The permit also doesn't allow me to cross state lines with a concealed weapon.

On a side note since you mentioned West Virginia. A few years ago I did some work way back in the hill of West Virginia. It was not uncommon for me to come across folks with pistols at the hip, like in the old west. I never once felt threatened by them. I'd feel more threatened to discover I was in the company of some yuppie with a gun hidden in a shoulder holster under his suit coat.

MSU

  

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jazz4freeSun Dec-16-12 07:03 PM
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#58. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 55)


  

          

That long a wait for one piddling shotgun... Hell, a little road trip down to West Virginia and you could have come back with a trunk load of ordinance.

But as usual you gun folks refuse to see the forest, you're much too busy looking for friendly trees.

Picky, picky.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/us/politics/27guns.html?_r=0

  

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jasonlevineTue Dec-18-12 02:39 AM
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#82. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 55)


  

          

I have no problem with hunting rifles and the like. If the killer walked into the school with a hunting rifle, he'd have gotten off 2 shots and then would have had to reload. While he did so, someone could have done something to stop him.

With the gun he had, he was able to fire 100 rounds before reloading. So he could go through the entire school (theoretically) without reloading once. What's the use of a gun like that except to kill a lot of people very fast?

- Jason Levine
Please donate to PCQandA!

  

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dtellierSun Dec-16-12 09:16 PM
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#61. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 54)


  

          

Well, I don't shoot moose, am not gun-toting, and absolutely cannot stand a Molson's brew. What does that make me, then?

Dave

  

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MSUSun Dec-16-12 09:21 PM
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#62. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to dtellier (Reply # 61)


  

          

A wanna be

MSU

  

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dtellierSun Dec-16-12 10:41 PM
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#66. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 62)


  

          

Not flippin' likely!

Dave

  

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Ed W.Sat Dec-15-12 11:10 PM
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#43. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 33)


          

Because they are just one type of the multiples of high powered rifles that we have the right to own. A semiautomatic rifle is normally not used for hunting, it is used for target shooting. You take that away and someone can just use a lever action or another assortment of semiautomatic low caliber rifles and do just as much damage. And as some have tried to point out to you, semiautomatic pistols are just as deadly and just as fast. The problem is the people, not the guns which you just can't understand. We ain't giving up our guns, so get used to it.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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Paul DSun Dec-16-12 08:50 PM
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#60. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 43)
Sun Dec-16-12 08:54 PM by Paul D

  

          

Mass shootings in the USA since January 2011 - 65.

Mass shootings in Australia since 1996 (that's 16= years) - 0.

Even allowing for the population difference, I rest my case.

The majority of the criminal shootings in Australia in recent years have been between bikie gangs. Gee, remind me again where the bikie culture originated.




Paul D

  

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MSUSun Dec-16-12 09:29 PM
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#63. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 60)


  

          

That's just it, it's not legal guns or not. It's a sad societal difference between our countries. It's the way morals have been eroded here over the years and consequences for actions have been minimalized. It's the "it's not my fault, but everyone else's fault" mentality that pervades this country. It's the "I'm entitled to something and didn't get it" mentality. It's the turning of many people with mental issues out onto the streets instead of treating them. Guns are not the problem, they're an extenuating factor.

MSU

  

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ablibSun Dec-16-12 09:54 PM
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#64. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 60)
Sun Dec-16-12 09:55 PM by ablib

  

          

These conversations are so stupid, but I like the abuse.

So, according to this your gun laws are barely different than ours. And none of these laws would prevent the most recent tragedy or the one in Aurora.

But we have an insane amount of more shootings.

Explain that.

Visit the Basement

  

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dtellierSun Dec-16-12 10:39 PM
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#65. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 64)


  

          

I just read the link you posted. Where are you seeing any similarity in US gun laws and those listed in the link? It looks pretty well just the opposite.

Check the 28 day mandatory wait time for a permit, the requirement of a valid reason to own the gun (and self-defense is not considered one of them), etc.

I will admit that gun control reform will not totally eradicate the US problem, but it would be a sound and logical step in the right direction. Follow this with a very strong educational program designed to provide the true facts regarding guns and private individuals, not the bullshit propaganda pushed by the NRA.

Dave

  

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ablibMon Dec-17-12 01:03 AM
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#68. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to dtellier (Reply # 65)
Mon Dec-17-12 01:22 AM by ablib

  

          

Quoted from the link:

Quote:
Anyone wishing to possess or use a firearm must have a Firearms Licence


So do we (in some states).


Quote:
and, with some exceptions, be over the age of 18


In some states, with some guns, you have to be over 21 here to purchase. But never under the age of 18.


Quote:
Owners must have secure storage for their firearms.


We have all that, you must secure your guns, stuff.


Quote:
The first permit has a mandatory 28-day delay before it is first issued.



This part is the reason I said "barely different". We have a 3 day period. 28 days is nice, however the next part...

Quote:
In some states (e.g., Queensland, Victoria, and New South Wales), this is waived for second and subsequent firearms of the same class


Kind of makes the 28 day waiting period pointless. Waiting periods are nice so no spur of the moment crimes happen, however it didn't help the kids in Connecticut, or Colorado.


Quote:
For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given,


This part is actually a ridiculous waste of legislation. I can't believe this is written law. I giggled a little at this.



I realize this list isn't exhaustive of the gun laws in Australia, however, like I said, it is pretty similar to ours. The buyback program is nice, but Republican's here would never get behind that project.

So what more reform do we need?

Visit the Basement

  

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dtellierMon Dec-17-12 02:17 AM
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#69. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 68)


  

          

You clearly pick that which supports your viewpoint. Face it, the US has very lax, ineffective gun control. Unless you have strong, enforced legislation, in ALL states, you have nothing.

Dave

  

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ablibMon Dec-17-12 02:43 AM
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#70. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to dtellier (Reply # 69)
Mon Dec-17-12 02:59 AM by ablib

  

          

Quote:
You clearly pick that which supports your viewpoint.



No, I just get very frustrated talking to people who think they know it all.

I didn't expect an intelligent or informed reply from someone who thinks the issue lies with gun control.

These are why these conversations are pointless. People on the outside paint this picture of the US as the wild west, with no laws. You're proven incorrect, then you continue to say you're right.

As usual, talking to the wall, is more entertaining.

Visit the Basement

  

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dtellierMon Dec-17-12 03:01 AM
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#71. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 70)
Mon Dec-17-12 03:09 AM by dtellier

  

          

Thanks for stooping to getting personal in your posts. Why can't you have a logical, intelligent conversation without attacking someone with a different viewpoint?

These conversations have been held in this forum before, always with the same results. Your country has the ugliest record for violent death due to rampant gun use in the civilized world, yet you discount the viewpoint of everyone who can see what makes your country different from theirs. The US lack of economic regulation resulted in the 2008 world monetary crisis. The US lack of adequate gun regulation results in the highest rate of deaths, such as those illustrated here, in the civilized world. The US lack of adequate concern for the welfare of its' own citizenry results in the only country in the developed world without proper universal health care. The US lack of support for consistent federal regulation of anything of significance results in what appears to be only a thinly-veiled attempt at even existing as a true country.

I wish these were incorrect statements, but they are well supported in fact. The influx of illegal guns from the states bordering our country is a very real problem in Canada, but I doubt anyone in the US would care - remember, anything outside of your country is pretty well irrelevant from your viewpoint.

I am done with this conversation, as I should have stayed before starting in. Live your heresy, and enjoy!

Dave

  

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Ed W.Mon Dec-17-12 04:38 AM
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#72. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to dtellier (Reply # 71)


          

As you have been told many times before, solve all your own problems before you try to tell us how to run this Country.

Comparing our Country to yours and that little island down under is the old apples and oranges situation period.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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Paul DMon Dec-17-12 06:52 AM
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#73. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Ed W. (Reply # 72)


  

          


That "little island down under" is bigger than the lower 48. And more civilised.



Paul D

  

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jazz4freeMon Dec-17-12 10:48 AM
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#74. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 64)


  

          

Quote:
These conversations are so stupid


I recall an incident in high school. It took place during history class. We were supposed to be discussing the battle of the Somme in the first world war. But the class, myself included, was up to its usual antics of horsing around -- either not paying the least bit of attention to the subject at hand, or interjecting frivolous comments we thought amusing. Having a little chuckle, so to speak.

Our teacher, Mrs. O'Connor, in anger and frustration, raised her voice to inform us, in no uncertain terms, that it was people like us who were responsible for war.

At the time, I thought that laughable. Experience has taught me differently.

By the age of thirty most people have put the blasé, smart-ass attitude to bed. I guess our Whipper needs just a bit more time.



  

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MSUMon Dec-17-12 11:47 AM
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#76. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 74)
Mon Dec-17-12 11:48 AM by MSU

  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:I guess our Whipper needs just a bit more time.

Nah, he just says in five words what it takes others 137 words to say

MSU

  

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jazz4freeMon Dec-17-12 01:16 PM
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#78. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 76)


  

          

Only 137... I must be slipping.

  

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MSUMon Dec-17-12 02:01 PM
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#79. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 78)


  

          

MSU

  

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ablibSat Dec-22-12 01:00 AM
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#88. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 74)
Sat Dec-22-12 01:05 AM by ablib

  

          

I don't have much time any more for things that are a waste of time.

Is that better?

Gun control, religion, politics, are all topics that everyone can have their say, but in the end nothing said changes anything. By the age of 30, I've realized there are more important things in life to focus energy into.

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeSat Dec-22-12 01:38 AM
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#89. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 88)


  

          

Good luck with the more important stuff.

Meanwhile, I'll endorse the sentiment: "It is better to light one small candle than to curse the darkness."

  

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ablibSat Dec-22-12 01:50 AM
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#90. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 89)


  

          

Thank you for that.

Visit the Basement

  

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jmcFri Dec-14-12 09:51 PM
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#3. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 0)
Fri Dec-14-12 09:54 PM by jmc

          

I am sure that reporting this kind of thing has nothing to do with it happening again. NA can't be because of that.

Edit:
Every time something like this hits the National News it gives a nut an Idea. They should ban reporting these kinds of things. In the US it kills freedom of speech but I would rather kill that than 27 innocent people. Out of sight out of Mind.

  

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EthanSat Dec-15-12 07:30 AM
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#8. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 0)


  

          

I'm 100% for gun control but that is too simple. American society needs to be examined. The prisons are too full and there is too much violence in general.

Ethan

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
"Why shouldn't the American people take half my money from me? I took it all from them." - Edward Filene

  

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ablibSat Dec-15-12 04:24 PM
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#9. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 0)


  

          

Of the shooters mother:

Quote:
Nancy Lanza legally owned a Sig Sauer and a Glock, both handguns of models commonly used by police, and a military-style Bushmaster .223 M4 carbine, according to law enforcement officials who also believe Adam Lanza used at least some of those weapons.

Nancy Lanza was an avid gun collector who once showed him a "really nice, high-end rifle" that she had purchased, said Dan Holmes, owner of a landscaping business who recently decorated her yard with Christmas garlands and lights. "She said she would often go target shooting with her kids."



Unless the second amendment is repealed, there are no laws that could be enacted to prevent this crime again in the future. However our embracing of guns (another thing that will unlikely go away), is the only thing in play here.

Would it be safe to assume that if Adam Lanza's mother were anti-gun, never had guns in the house, and never taught her kids how to shoot guns, that this tragedy would never have happened?



http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/15/us-connecticut-towns-idUSBRE8BD0U120121215

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jazz4freeSat Dec-15-12 04:41 PM
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#10. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 9)


  

          

Quote:
Unless the second amendment is repealed, there are no laws that could be enacted to prevent this crime again in the future.


A little arbitrary... Maybe someone who is not you will conjure one up.

  

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ablibSat Dec-15-12 04:58 PM
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#12. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 10)


  

          

Well...I honestly don't know what gun control advocates want or expect out of new gun laws.

However, as long as the second amendment is in place, I don't expect hand guns, shot guns, or rifles, ever being taken away from law abiding citizens.

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeSat Dec-15-12 05:09 PM
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#14. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 12)


  

          

I've no doubt of that. I expect that if the entire population of the United States were to indulge themselves in a gigantic mutual shoot out, the last law abiding man standing atop the pile of broken and bloody bodies will be polishing the smoking barrel of his machine gun with a copy of that second f'n amendment.

  

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dtellierSat Dec-15-12 05:55 PM
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#15. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 12)


  

          

...and therein lies the problem.

Dave

  

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Paul DSat Dec-15-12 06:35 PM
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#20. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 12)


  

          


Here we go again with the tired old lie (constantly pushed by the NRA and other such lunatics) that gun control = gun bans. That simply isn't true, even in evil Australia.

Once again, what earthly reason would a private citizen have for owning a Bushmaster?




Paul D

  

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Paul DSat Dec-15-12 06:38 PM
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#22. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 12)


  

          


How about a vast reduction in unnecessary deaths, for starters. Statistical fact, despite all the faux information peddled by the NRA.



Paul D

  

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louSat Dec-15-12 08:45 PM
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#32. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 12)


          

Quote:
However, as long as the second amendment is in place, I don't expect hand guns, shot guns, or rifles, ever being taken away from law abiding citizens.

I'am not sure it was the 2nd amendment just being in place but rather the Supreme Court ruling in 2010 that granted the right for individuals to own firearms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Maybe if the firearms of today could only fire one round and then had to reload as they did 200 yrs ago when the 2nd amendment was written a lot of those people that were killed yesterday would be alive today.

By allowing citizens to own a musket in lieu of repeating firearms it would fulfill the requirements of the 2nd amendment and pacify those that need to hunt and those who go to the shooting range.


  

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MSUSat Dec-15-12 06:24 PM
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#16. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 10)


  

          

What gun control advocates fail to understand is that making guns illegal won't get rid of guns (except for taking them from law abiding citizens). Just like drugs being illegal hasn't gotten rid of drugs.

I also just read this morning about a guy in China who stabbed 20 or so kids at a school. And gun control advocates say that without a gun that multiple casualties couldn't happen like that. He certainly didn't need a gun.

MSU

  

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jazz4freeSat Dec-15-12 06:26 PM
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#17. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 16)


  

          

Ah, but in that incident there were injuries but no fatalities.

  

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MSUSat Dec-15-12 06:30 PM
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#18. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 17)


  

          

Fair enough, I didn't realize none were killed, I just read the headline that stated how many were stabbed.

MSU

  

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Paul DSat Dec-15-12 06:41 PM
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#23. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 16)


  

          


No. Gun control advocates say it's far less likely either that the incidents will happen at all or that the consequences will be as severe. And that is FACT.



Paul D

  

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MSUSat Dec-15-12 07:33 PM
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#28. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 23)


  

          

Do you realize that there are already over 20,000 gun control laws in the United States? How many more will take care of the situation?

MSU

  

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jazz4freeSat Dec-15-12 08:08 PM
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#29. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 28)


  

          

Unless you can pass a federal law against self-destructive behavior and then enforce it, you're right. As far as sensible national laws to control firearms are concerned, America has more than enough of their share of folks who love the smell of gunpowder in the morning more than they love their children, and a radical bunch of bullying political extortionists in charge of your omnipotent National Rifle Association, to prevent that from ever happening.

So, in the meantime you have the freedom to wreak havoc on one another. May as well flood what's left of the place with guns (instead of a chicken in every pot, a locked and loaded piece in every gun belt). You law abiding gun nuts and the crooks and the criminally insane can then have at one another while sensible people barricade themselves in their root cellars until the smoke clears and the surplus population of the incurably stupid has decreased itself to manageable levels.

See, just ask James. He has a solution to every problem.

  

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MSUSat Dec-15-12 08:18 PM
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#30. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 29)


  

          

Well this law abiding "gun nut" hasn't even fired one of his guns in over ten years. They only get taken out of the case once in a while just to wipe them off and re-oil them.

MSU

  

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jazz4freeSat Dec-15-12 08:28 PM
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#31. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to MSU (Reply # 30)


  

          

Well, since you've little use for the nasty buggers, maybe you should get rid.

Take out a for sale ad in Serial Killers Monthly. It shouldn't take long to find takers, and you might even come out a few bucks to the good. Especially if you throw in a couple of boxes of hollow-point ammo.

  

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Paul DSat Dec-15-12 09:35 PM
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#34. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 31)


  

          


Nope. At least they're safe while MSU has control of them.



Paul D

  

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bobboSat Dec-15-12 09:48 PM
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#35. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 34)


  

          

MSU has exhibited a responsible attitude regarding firearms, and I respect his position. I was once a member on my squadron's rifle team, while in the navy, and enjoyed shooting competitions.

  

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jazz4freeSat Dec-15-12 11:49 PM
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#45. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to bobbo (Reply # 35)


  

          

Come on guys, guns are made for only one purpose -- to kill something.
Mark's not making proper use of the merchandise. It belongs in the hands of someone who'll appreciate it. Like a weekend-warrior militia type, or a good old-fashioned bank robber, or a wannabe mass murderer in search of reliable tools.

If he enjoys occasionally hauling things out and oiling them up, there's always the lawnmower.

  

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Ed W.Sat Dec-15-12 11:59 PM
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#46. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 45)


          

Finally, a rational post.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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Paul DSat Dec-15-12 04:41 PM
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#11. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to ablib (Reply # 9)
Sat Dec-15-12 06:30 PM by Paul D

  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:...Would it be safe to assume that if Adam Lanza's mother were anti-gun, never had guns in the house, and never taught her kids how to shoot guns, that this tragedy would never have happened?

Nothing like that is 100%, obviously, but I'd say there is a very high degree of probability.



Paul D

  

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mlangdnSat Dec-15-12 05:09 PM
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#13. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 11)


          

The problem lies with people - always has and always will.
How many guns did McVeigh use at the Federal Building?
How many guns did the 9-11 terrorists use to bring down 4 planes?
If we made heroin and meth illegal, could we get it off the streets?

  

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Paul DSat Dec-15-12 06:48 PM
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#24. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to mlangdn (Reply # 13)


  

          


Neither incident is relevant to this one, since both involved long periods of planning, and 9-11 a large organisation.

Just because a good outcome is difficult to achieve doesn't mean you don't try. Do we stop heart & kidney transplants because the success rate is less than 100%?




Paul D

  

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bobboSat Dec-15-12 06:34 PM
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#19. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 0)


  

          

The Michigan legislature, in it's infinite wisdom, has passed Senate Bill .59 which allows gun owners to carry their weapons into day care centers, schools, hospitals, churches, stadiums and bars. It only remains for Governor Snyder to sign it. I'm holding my breath.

  

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dtellierSat Dec-15-12 07:00 PM
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#25. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to bobbo (Reply # 19)


  

          

..ah... alcohol and guns. What a deliciously enticing combination.

Dave

  

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bobboSat Dec-15-12 07:23 PM
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#26. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to dtellier (Reply # 25)


  

          

C'mon Wyatt, there's some kind of fracas down at the OK Corral.

  

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dtellierSat Dec-15-12 10:01 PM
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#36. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 0)


  

          

Looks like you just got another one for the pot. Alabama Hospital Shooting

Dave

  

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MSUSat Dec-15-12 10:24 PM
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#38. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to dtellier (Reply # 36)


  

          

Unfortunately I think there were a couple last week too... And at the time I was thinking what the hell is going on. I don't know the background on any of them but the only thing that came to mind was possibly stress due to job (or rather lack of) frustrations during the holidays.

MSU

  

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Paul DSat Dec-15-12 11:13 PM
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#44. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 0)


  

          

Apparently there has been a lot of inaccurate reporting. It now seems that:-

His mother did not teach at the school, although she may have been a volunteer or a substitute teacher.

The Bushmaster was the main if not the only weapon used.

Lanza was not admitted to the school. He forced his way in.

He was not involved in an incident at the school the previous day.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/connecticut-police-release-names-of-sandy-hook-elementary-school-massacre-as-police-reveal-some-victims-were-

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/medical-examiner-sandy-hook-victims-died-multiple-gunshot-211722237.html




Paul D

  

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jasonlevineSun Dec-16-12 01:46 AM
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#47. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 0)


  

          

All I know is: 1) This shooting was 20 minutes away from where my nephews go to school and 2) the murdered kids were about the same age as my son. It was all a bit too close to home. When I got home from work yesterday, I hugged my kids extra-tight.

- Jason Levine
Please donate to PCQandA!

  

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jazz4freeMon Dec-17-12 11:01 AM
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#75. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 47)


  

          

Sez it all.

  

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MSUMon Dec-17-12 11:49 AM
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#77. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 47)


  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:I hugged my kids extra-tight.

Amen to that...

MSU

  

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dtellierMon Dec-17-12 12:11 AM
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#67. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 0)


  

          

...another one today... California shooter.

Dave

  

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bobboMon Dec-17-12 03:09 PM
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#80. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 0)


  

          

Op-Ed Columnist
Do We Have the Courage to Stop This?
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: December 15, 2012

IN the harrowing aftermath of the school shooting in Connecticut, one thought wells in my mind: Why can’t we regulate guns as seriously as we do cars?
Damon Winter/The New York Times


Children Were All Shot Multiple Times With a Semiautomatic, Officials Say (December 16, 2012)
Times Topic: Gun Control

The fundamental reason kids are dying in massacres like this one is not that we have lunatics or criminals — all countries have them — but that we suffer from a political failure to regulate guns.

Children ages 5 to 14 in America are 13 times as likely to be murdered with guns as children in other industrialized countries, according to David Hemenway, a public health specialist at Harvard who has written an excellent book on gun violence.

So let’s treat firearms rationally as the center of a public health crisis that claims one life every 20 minutes. The United States realistically isn’t going to ban guns, but we can take steps to reduce the carnage.

American schoolchildren are protected by building codes that govern stairways and windows. School buses must meet safety standards, and the bus drivers have to pass tests. Cafeteria food is regulated for safety. The only things we seem lax about are the things most likely to kill.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration has five pages of regulations about ladders, while federal authorities shrug at serious curbs on firearms. Ladders kill around 300 Americans a year, and guns 30,000.

We even regulate toy guns, by requiring orange tips — but lawmakers don’t have the gumption to stand up to National Rifle Association extremists and regulate real guns as carefully as we do toys. What do we make of the contrast between heroic teachers who stand up to a gunman and craven, feckless politicians who won’t stand up to the N.R.A.?

As one of my Facebook followers wrote after I posted about the shooting, “It is more difficult to adopt a pet than it is to buy a gun.”

Look, I grew up on an Oregon farm where guns were a part of life; and my dad gave me a .22 rifle for my 12th birthday. I understand: shooting is fun! But so is driving, and we accept that we must wear seat belts, use headlights at night, and fill out forms to buy a car. Why can’t we be equally adult about regulating guns?

And don’t say that it won’t make a difference because crazies will always be able to get a gun. We’re not going to eliminate gun deaths, any more than we have eliminated auto accidents. But if we could reduce gun deaths by one-third, that would be 10,000 lives saved annually.

Likewise, don’t bother with the argument that if more people carried guns, they would deter shooters or interrupt them. Mass shooters typically kill themselves or are promptly caught, so it’s hard to see what deterrence would be added by having more people pack heat. There have been few if any cases in the United States in which an ordinary citizen with a gun stopped a mass shooting.

The tragedy isn’t one school shooting, it’s the unceasing toll across our country. More Americans die in gun homicides and suicides in six months than have died in the last 25 years in every terrorist attack and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

So what can we do? A starting point would be to limit gun purchases to one a month, to curb gun traffickers. Likewise, we should restrict the sale of high-capacity magazines so that a shooter can’t kill as many people without reloading.

We should impose a universal background check for gun buyers, even with private sales. Let’s make serial numbers more difficult to erase, and back California in its effort to require that new handguns imprint a microstamp on each shell so that it can be traced back to a particular gun.

“We’ve endured too many of these tragedies in the past few years,” President Obama noted in a tearful statement on television. He’s right, but the solution isn’t just to mourn the victims — it’s to change our policies. Let’s see leadership on this issue, not just moving speeches.

Other countries offer a road map. In Australia in 1996, a mass killing of 35 people galvanized the nation’s conservative prime minister to ban certain rapid-fire long guns. The “national firearms agreement,” as it was known, led to the buyback of 650,000 guns and to tighter rules for licensing and safe storage of those remaining in public hands.

The law did not end gun ownership in Australia. It reduced the number of firearms in private hands by one-fifth, and they were the kinds most likely to be used in mass shootings.

In the 18 years before the law, Australia suffered 13 mass shootings — but not one in the 14 years after the law took full effect. The murder rate with firearms has dropped by more than 40 percent, according to data compiled by the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, and the suicide rate with firearms has dropped by more than half.

Or we can look north to Canada. It now requires a 28-day waiting period to buy a handgun, and it imposes a clever safeguard: gun buyers should have the support of two people vouching for them.

For that matter, we can look for inspiration at our own history on auto safety. As with guns, some auto deaths are caused by people who break laws or behave irresponsibly. But we don’t shrug and say, “Cars don’t kill people, drunks do.”

Instead, we have required seat belts, air bags, child seats and crash safety standards. We have introduced limited licenses for young drivers and tried to curb the use of mobile phones while driving. All this has reduced America’s traffic fatality rate per mile driven by nearly 90 percent since the 1950s.

Some of you are alive today because of those auto safety regulations. And if we don’t treat guns in the same serious way, some of you and some of your children will die because of our failure.

  

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PlainJoeSat Dec-22-12 09:14 AM
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#91. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to Hank52 (Reply # 0)


          

This certainly is sad. This kind of thing seems to be on the rise in the modern world. In the USA at least. its really sad.
but banning guns for good law biding citizens is not the solution. that makes these events even worse because there were no good people there armed to stop the one bad person who was on a rampage
so making guns illegal is not the answer. that just makes good people unable to defend themselves against this kind of thing.

they should think about putting medal detectors in schools and having some teachers who are armed in the schools. or somebody who is armed in the schools who can counter act when this type of things goes on.

there might not be a total solution for this things right off the bat
but making it harder for guns to get into the schools is a good start and also having some good armed people around who can stop this type of thing when it is in progress would keep the number of casualties to a minimum and would also deter some people from doing it altogether

really sad situation

  

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jazz4freeSat Dec-22-12 10:57 AM
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#92. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to PlainJoe (Reply # 91)
Sat Dec-22-12 10:59 AM by jazz4free

  

          

Quote:
so making guns illegal is not the answer.


SHIT! AND GODDAMN IT TO HELL! MAKING GUNS ILLEGAL IS NOT A PROPOSITION! IT IS NOT, NEVER HAS BEEN AND NEVER WILL BE, EVEN AN OPTION BEING CONSIDERED FOR NEGOTIATION! NOT THEN, NOT NOW, AND NOT IN THE DISTANTLY IMAGINED FUTURE! NOT ON THIS TABLE, OR ANY OTHER TABLE!

That the government will be coming for your guns is an invention of the NRA. It's a baldfaced lie designed to scare -- told by the amoral who wish to sell more and more and more guns and ammo of any and all types, without restriction -- and dependably repeated beyond the point of absurdity by people who dress up in camouflage and congregate in the woods of a weekend to blow up stuff and trade ghost stories about black helicopters; and, much more effectively insidious, tossed off mindlessly by the teeming masses of the gullible and obtuse P.T. Barnum once informed us of.

No one, except maybe yours truly, wants to outlaw f'n guns and turn them into something useful like guitar strings! No one, besides me, is that fucking delusional. NO ONE!!!!

What is proposed is that guns in general be regulated more sanely, and that assault rifles that fire off thirty-thousand deadly projectiles per second and the clips that hold more rounds than the bed of a large pickup truck not be sold anymore to grandma and grandpa and the baby sitter -- or the crazy bastards who play soldier in the woods or live secretly in their mother's basement under a rock.

How anyone, even those who possess the IQ of a door knob, can get their gun-hugging panties in a twist over something as innocuous as that is beyond comprehension!

BTW, Merry Christmas.

  

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StevehikerSat Dec-22-12 11:24 AM
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#93. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 92)


          

Well said!

Steve

  

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Paul DSat Dec-22-12 03:57 PM
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#94. "RE: Here We Go Again"
In response to PlainJoe (Reply # 91)


  

          


Doubtless you're one of those who believe the NRA lie that guns are illegal in Australia, since you clearly believe the NRA lie that the evil Democrats led by the antichrist Obama are coming to take away every gun in the USA.

In reality Australian gun control laws are no more severe than those that currently exist in a few of the more civilised and enlightened states of the USA. And Australia has NEVER had a mass school shooting. NEVER.

Get a grip on reality.




Paul D

  

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