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toim4018Tue Dec-13-16 04:49 AM
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"Green Energy?"


          

Is Green Energy truly all it is cut out to be?

Was told once the "Today's Solutions are Tomorrow'e Problems".

After a story that climate change date was manipulated and know this:

http://defund.com/new-study-reveals-solar-panels-contribute-global-warming/?utm_source=fnot2&utm_medium=facebook

I would have never thought this about solar although I questioned it's cost effectiveness. As far as electricity generation I always thought hydro-electric was a good way to go but it also has opponents.

  

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Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Green Energy?
Dec 13th 2016
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RE: Green Energy?
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ShellyTue Dec-13-16 04:17 PM
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#1. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to toim4018 (Reply # 0)


  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:
Is Green Energy truly all it is cut out to be?

Was told once the "Today's Solutions are Tomorrow'e Problems".

After a story that climate change date was manipulated and know this:

http://defund.com/new-study-reveals-solar-panels-contribute-global-warming/?utm_source=fnot2&utm_medium=facebook

I would have never thought this about solar although I questioned it's cost effectiveness. As far as electricity generation I always thought hydro-electric was a good way to go but it also has opponents.


For a starter, you could seek some better information sources.

All energy sources have a varying degree of unwanted impact. As solar panels improve, as they have been, their environmenntal impact will continue to lessen. They will probably continue to remain a significant contributor to the total energy supply. What will also be significant is where people are located.

If you live near the ocean, tidal generators can be a clean cheap source of electrical energy generation as the tideswill continue to flow. But there is no one best solution for everywhere.

Wind generators will kill some birds, tidal generators will kill some fish, but coal and oil powrerd generators can kill people along with the economy.

Power generated atomicly is clean but the lifspan of an atomic generating plant is finite, and remains dangerous for centuries once retired, ask Japan. As the worlds population continues to grow, the demand for power will also grow, but our ability to supply that power, may not be able to keep up.

Shelly

  

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toim4018Wed Dec-14-16 11:28 AM
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#2. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 1)


          

There are a lot of solar systems going up in my area as our electric company is one of the few here that will buy back the excess. Everyone that has done it says it is not cost effective without the tax incentives. They say the cost of the system will end up being break even over its life, it may do better in areas of higher rates though. These systems they are putting in for homes around here are $40,000+.

I always thought any dam on a river could have a small hydro electric generator.

  

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Paul DWed Dec-14-16 04:46 PM
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#3. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to toim4018 (Reply # 2)


  

          


I'm having solar installed in the new year. 6kw system, 24 panels, costing me $A5280 (with a $A3k govt subsidy). It's more than I need right now, and feedback tariff isn't much, but it will probably pay for itself within four years, and I expect that by then storage batteries will be a lot cheaper. I expect to be pretty much independent of the grid in 5 years time.

Every electricity generation company in Australia pays a feedback tariff, albeit a small one.

I simply do not believe that a domestic solar system costs $US40,000. If it does, your friends are being exploited. The cost of panels nowadays is less than 20% of what it used to be.

This by the way should answer your earlier question about whether I practice what I preach.




Paul D

  

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toim4018Wed Dec-14-16 08:56 PM
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#4. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 3)


          

Seems like a few people I know mentioned 10KW systems they put in, they have no storage batteries from my understanding. They run off the grid when not producing and feed excess to the grid if they have any when producing. Most of the prices I see around here says about $3.75 per KW on the system price.

  

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jasonlevineThu Dec-15-16 03:48 PM
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#5. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to toim4018 (Reply # 4)


  

          

The interesting development, to me, is Elon Musk's announcement that his company has developed a solar cell that a) is cheaper than normal shingles (due to not breaking during shipment) and b) looks like normal roof shingles. When viewed straight on, as the sun would, it's transparent so the sunlight can get in. When viewed from the ground, they look opaque. They also have a home battery pack to store the solar energy for nighttime/cloudy days.

I'm still skeptical of your $40,000+ figure, but I do know that solar power is currently too pricey for me to install it in my house. Still, the price is constantly coming down. It won't be long before home solar energy is cheaper than the big power companies.

- Jason Levine
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toim4018Fri Dec-16-16 01:08 AM
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#6. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 5)


          

I think the ones around here being installed are 10 KW. Heard of the shingles before also.
Here is a quote form this site:
http://news.energysage.com/how-much-does-the-average-solar-panel-installation-cost-in-the-u-s/

Knowing the average cost per watt is helpful, but what does $3.57/watt actually mean for you? The cost of installing solar on your home or business depends on how much electricity you want to generate – a bigger system will cost more, because you’ll need to buy more equipment and more labor will be needed to install it.

The average solar energy system size in the U.S is approximately 5 kilowatts (kW). Based on the average price of $3.57/watt, a 5kW system would cost $12,500 after tax credits. Below are some average 2015 quotes for other solar energy systems by size:
•6kW solar energy system cost: $15,000
•8kW solar energy system cost: $20,000
•10kW solar energy system cost: $25,000

These prices reflect the cost of a solar energy system after deducting the federal solar tax credit, which reduces your solar system cost by 30 percent.

  

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Paul DFri Dec-16-16 04:19 PM
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#7. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to toim4018 (Reply # 6)
Fri Dec-16-16 04:28 PM by Paul D

  

          

In general, 10 Kw is a B-I-G system which will generate far more power than the average domestic user could possibly use. You would want to have storage batteries, a decent feed-back tariff or VERY heavy daytime usage to justify that.

By that article a 10kW system will cost about $25,000 (which is a helluva lot less than the $40,000 you originally quoted) although that article was written early 2016, and panel prices will be lower now - they are dropping all the time.

My 6kW system is costing me $A5,280 up front with a government rebate of about $A4,000. That's about $A9,000, which is $US6,800 as opposed to your site's quoted $US15,000. Someone is getting ripped off, and it's not me.




Paul D

  

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toim4018Fri Dec-16-16 04:51 PM
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#8. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 7)


          

That figure is after the 30% tax incentive, homeowner still has to pay or finance full price. It says that at the end of the quoted part.

I just know what people in my area told me they have paid and from a quote I got on one. Our electric coop pays a good rate from what I am told for what you feed back into the grid. None of the people around here put in storage batteries. Most say during sunny weather they generate more than they use so the system is making a little money. Not all electric companies in my area pay for what you feed back into the grid.

There is one right down the road from me that a guy put one a shop building for his business. He has a bigger home than me and said it would never pay for itself on his house.

  

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Paul DFri Dec-16-16 05:05 PM
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#9. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to toim4018 (Reply # 8)
Fri Dec-16-16 05:08 PM by Paul D

  

          

We get our subsidy in the form of a rebate paid directly to the installer, so we only have to ough up the nett price. But my comparisons allow for that, and based on those comparisons US costs are hideously expensive compared to Australian.

Quote:
Is Green Energy truly all it is cut out to be?
In Australia, absolutely. Despite the efforts of a conservative government to pretend climate change doesn't exist and to stifle research into renewable energy.



Paul D

  

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jasonlevineFri Dec-16-16 05:07 PM
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#10. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to toim4018 (Reply # 0)


  

          

World Energy Hits a Turning Point: Solar That's Cheaper Than Wind

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-15/world-energy-hits-a-turning-point-solar-that-s-cheaper-than-wind

The article also says that solar is cheaper than coal or oil (though that's in other countries, not sure if it's cheaper in the US also).

- Jason Levine
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toim4018Fri Dec-16-16 05:18 PM
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#11. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 10)


          

I had heard the reason they closed a $1.2 billion dollar plant about an hour from here was because the Chinese were producing the polycrystalline silicon for solar panels cheaper than it could be produced here.

They got a bunch of tax incentives and never even opened the plant. It was a huge place as I was in there doing some work. It was not a good use of our tax money.

  

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Paul DFri Dec-16-16 08:08 PM
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#12. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to toim4018 (Reply # 11)


  

          


That's probably correct. My installer says all panels are made in China.
Reminiscent of when you could buy a zillion different brands of recordable CDs, all of which came from four Asian factories.




Paul D

  

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Paul DFri Dec-16-16 08:17 PM
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#13. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 10)


  

          

Five years ago Australia was a world leader in renewable research. Then along came the troglodyte bastards now governing us.

We've got so much natural advantage. Thousands of square miles of virtually uninhabited sunlit desert for both wind and bulk solar. Uninterrupted and largely uninhabited coastline for wave generation. It's all so tragic.

Renewables are the future, in terms of clean energy, cost and employment. This mob have the vision of a Dodo, and hopefully will soon be extinct just like them.




Paul D

  

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jasonlevineFri Dec-16-16 08:39 PM
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#14. "RE: Green Energy?"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 13)


  

          

It really is a shame. You could probably get all of Australia off fossil fuels quickly. Solar alone would put a huge dent in the amount of fossil fuels needed.

- Jason Levine
Please donate to PCQandA!

  

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