I figured I'd try asking the members of PCQandA for some help. Since everyone has a wide variety of interests, I figured someone might know something about pet fish, specifically betas.
I've had my male beta, Neon, for almost a year now. Prior to this he seemed happy - swimming around, eating and being a regular fish. For the last week or so I've noticed that he is acting strange.
When I say strange he's just not acting like his normal self. Usually he'll swim around and eat 4-6 pellets twice a day. Now he barely moves from the bottom corner of his tank (sits on the bottom near his thermometer). When he's on the bottom you can barely tell he's alive. Nothing moves aside from some gasping like movement by his mouth. In addition to this, he barely eats, doesn't really respond to a mirror, and his dorsal fin is droopy.
The only real change that he's experienced is temperature. All summer Neon was living in 74 degree water with the AC on. Now that the weather outside has dipped and our heat is on his thermometer is only reading 68 degrees. This is what he had last winter when we fish got him.
Tonight I noticed a new development - spots on the edges of his fins. Immediately I knew it was ich. I called my father (who used to work in a pet store years ago) to see what to do. He said it was probably due to the cold. He didn't know what to tell me to do since ich isn't usually found in betas. Jason and I followed his advice and changed the water in his tank. We washed everything in scalding hot water and tried to increase the temperature of his tank.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I feel so bad since he appears to be so miserable. I'm afraid I'm going to walk into the room next time and see him floating belly up.
Thanks for the advice. I actually used the google search option earlier this evening. Thanks to the information I found on there I was able to verify that Neon has ich. To answer your question, I'm guessing he's about 1 year old. My friend gave him to me for my birthday in December. He was extremely tiny and the fish store told her that he was a baby.
Right now things don't look too good. He's really struggling to breathe. You can see him "gasping" with his mouth and his gills are heaving as he tries to move to the surface to get air (betas also go to the surface for that). I guess we'll see if he makes it through the night. I'll have Jason check him in the morning before I go into the room.
there is a solution you can add to the water for ich....most pet stores will have it.anytime the water temp gets low the fish activity declines...if you have a heater for the tank turn it up...if not again thay can be bought at a pet store.i had the same problem in winter with tropical fish i had in Virginia.
#23. "RE: Advice about beta fish" In response to vitalt (Reply # 2) Thu Oct-17-02 06:06 AM
vitalt -
Thanks for your advice about the ich medicine. I knew that it existed and asked my father about it earlier. He told me that it's mainly for use with other fish in large tanks. He said that betas might not respond well to it since it's pretty harsh (especially in such a small tank with no heat or filtration source).
I've been reading up on ich all night. Here are some of the things that I've found:
Right now I think we may be too late fighting this battle. From what I've read Neaon's ich has progressed to the advance stages. I can't even look over at him now . . . it's too hard to watch him suffer. :'(
BTW - Here's a picture of Neon in his little tank so you'll understand.
I have a Betta Splenden myself, and they are generally a very hearty fish. They are found in irrigation ditches and even flooded rice fields in Asia. The Betta is part of the Labrynth fish family, which the labrynth organ is an auxiliary breathing organ that allows the fish to survive in polluted water with little or no oxygen for a long time. If the Betta cannot take air, it will basically drown. The males often will make bubbles on the surface. Not sure how, but maybe it has some other parasitic infestation. You said it has Ich, I don't know that Ich meds would necessarily hurt it. Just keep changing the water frequently, and perhaps a little tiny bit of ich meds. There may be a special med for bettas but I'm not sure.
I know that when my house is cooler, my betta will go to the center of the bottom of the bowl. My guess, is to seek warmer water. Since these fish originate in much warmer climates where the shallow water is often much warmer, I would say it's a safe bet that warmer temps are preferred by them even in captivity as well. My house generally stays pretty even in temp all year round, so I don't notice my betta having many temp related problems other than occasionally going to the center of the bowl. I had to rescue him from his Pagoda one day when he got stuck in one of the windows and couldn't get free. Needless to say, he no longer has a Pagoda in his bowl. When I'm not looking, my cats use the bowl as thier own water dish. I also have a larger freshwater and a saltwater tank. I have a Plecostomus that I've had for about 9 years and he was originally about 2 inches long and now he's about 10 inches long. The saltwater tank has a Lemon Peel Tang, a clownfish, a starfish, an urchin, and about 90lbs. of live Fiji rock.
Well, this probably was of no help, but I really enjoy the fish anyway.
Thanks for writing back. As I mentioned in my reply to Casca, Neon seems to be doing better today. Hopefully he'll start eating again so I won't worry as much. I'm going to head to the pet store tonight to get a new thermometer for his tank. While there I'll ask them about treating the ich. Although I don't see the white spots anymore, I still see him scratching on the marbles on the bottom of his tank. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
I have had a few betas and even got them to breed. Your water is cold, shine a light on the bowl, try the ick medicine anyway. Next call around and find a store that sells live brine shrimp. Feed him shrimp for a couple of days, then once the ich is gone get a female and put them together.
Once he starts blowing a buble nest you need to watch them closely, interesting courtship, anyway once the eggs are laid in the bubble nest you need to get the female out of the tank. The male will take it from there.
It's best to block the males view of the outside world so he does not move into genocide mode.
Watch daily, feed the male well and once they hatch get the male out. You would be surprised how many fish you can get.
The hardest fish I got to breed was the Angel Fish, had to set up the exact conditions and tape the glass over with paper. Within a few days I had hundreds of eggs and when they hatched I had to move all the other fish out to save some of the brood.
Eventually, once the children came I no longer had the time to spend on that hobby, had to give up softball and all other forms of joy to deal with my children. Who were delightful until they became teens, they help me reshape my views on child rearing.
I think the Cuban way is perhaps the best, take them before they turn in teensters and work them in the fields.
Thanks for the reply. Assuming the thermometer in Neon's tank is working properly (last night it wouldn't go under 90 degrees), the water temperature is warmer (about 74F). This seems to be helping the fish, but Jason and I aren't used to it! This morning Neon was swimming around a little more, but he still wouldn't eat anything. I know something is wrong when blood worms won't even get him to eat.
I just got back from work and walked into the room. The minute I turned on the light he went swimming up to the surface. He's been moving around the tank and hasn't been on the bottom as much in the last 20-30 minutes. Another plus is he doesn't seem to be "gasping" for air as much. When I went to take a closer look I don't see any of the white spots that were on his fins. When Jason gets home I'll see if he sees anything. If he does, then we'll head to the pet store to get something to treat ich. Either way we're going to clean out the tank every few days to see if it helps.
You mentioned getting live brine shrimp to feed him. I don't think we're going to do that unless the pet store recommends it. I have bought him special food in the past and then he refuses to eat anything else. Betas are known for being picky eaters and ours is right up there.
LOL about getting a female fish for Neon! I don't think that's going to happen any time soon. Jason and I just don't have the time for that right now (or the desire). As it is I didn't buy Neon, he was a gift from my best friend. If I get another pet (we can have small caged animals in our apartment), I'm getting a parakeet. I miss my birds. My avatar is my cockatoo Moose that still lives with my parents because he can't live with us here.
I have never checked the water chemistry. Neon's tank only gets filtered water that I sit out in a jug for several days before using (this gets rid of the chlorine since we have a lot in the water here). My father says that I'm babying him, but I didn't want to take a chance. When I first got him I used tablets in the water to condition it. They seemed to cause more problems so I stopped using them. They were too strong for such a small amount of water and caused the water to cloud up quickly.
Last night, Jason and I went to the pet store to get some things. We bought a new thermometer and ich medicine. We haven't used the Rid Ich yet because Neon seems to be responding to the increased temperature (he actually ate 2 pellets this morning). In addition to this, we don't see the white spots on his fins. We're going to wait and see what happens over the weekend. Hopefully he'll start eating again. The best thing at this point is to keep the water temperature up (72-76F) and keep it clean. My father agreed that this is the best thing to do since Rid Ich has Malachite green in it. There may be too strong a concentration in it for a beta, plus it may stain his little tank green/blue.
Used to raise Bettas by the thousands about 30 years ago. They are most comfortable in a temperature in the low to mid eighties. 74 degrees is much too cold. They are native to the swamps and rice paddies of Thailand (formerly Siam). The pH should be close to neutral (approx 7.0), although they are not too fussy in this respect.
Sounds like a bacterial infection. One good method of minimizing the risk of this danger is to put 1 tbsp of rock salt (pickling salt - non-iodized) per 2 gallons of water for most all fresh water fish. This causes a thicker development of the slime coating that protects these fish from infection. A soup made from natural (untreated with chemicals) boiled peat (sphagnum) moss added to the water until it is a distinct amber colour is also beneficial and will minimize bacteria counts. If he's showing signs of improvement, this is probably all he needs. If more is required, try dipping him with a net into a strong (10 times over recommended aquarium dose) solution of either malachite green or bromothymol blue. Leave him there for only 10 or 15 seconds and then return him to his normal tank.
I think you may be causing him too much stress with the water changes unless they are performed carefully. Fish can easily go into shock from any rapid change in either temperature or pH. It is best to perform regular changes of 10 to 20 percent maximum using well-conditioned water.
The water is too cold for that species of tropical fish - matter of fact, too cold for tropicals in general! Warm up the tank and treat for ich with stuff that you can get from the pet shop. The cold water helped to bring about the ich.
#20. "RE: Advice about beta fish" In response to JP (Reply # 19)
Re: Temperature of Neon's water.
JP and dtellier thanks for your replies. Right now I think things are working out for our little fellow. He's swimming around like normal and puffing up his gills at the site of another beta's picture. Tonight he even ate 4 pellets!
Temperature was certainly an issue. All summer his water was between 74-78 degrees. Within the last few weeks the weather changed here, as did the thermostat in our apartment. Jason and I were comfortable, but clearly the change stressed Neon (which allowed the ich to surface). Last week when we noticed him acting odd the thermometer was only reading 68F! Not good at all since the book we have on betas suggests an optimal temp. between 72-78 degrees in captivity. We immediately turned up the heat in the apartment, but it wasn't enough.
Since I posted we've cranked up the heat again (we're sweating thanks to the temperature). Right now the temperature of Neon's water is what it was all last winter and he seems content. As I mentioned before the white dots seemed to have disappeared. He's also stopped scratching up against the stones on the bottom of the tank.
We are also aware that water changes stress out the fish, that's why we usually only do a complete cleaning every 2 weeks (what all of the books on betas suggest). We remove some of the "funky" water and add new conditioned water to his tank. Recently we had to do a change before we wanted thanks to the appearance of the spots. If we don't see them again I'm happy to wait until next weekend to do a full change (so long as he eats and the pellets don't make the water too foggy).
Again, thanks for your suggestions. Who knew that having one fish could get so complicated.
One more thing about the water changes. When we change his water we do not scoop Neon up with a net. We tried that when we first got him and it was a disaster. We now have a small clear plastic glass (similar to what they sell betas in at pet stores) to catch him in.
All we have to do is empty out most of the water in his tank and submerge the glass. Then we just tap on the side of his tank and most of the time he'll swim right into the glass. After this we place a cover on top (he's a jumper) and put his thermometer next to the cup.
Believe it or not, we've found that having his trusty thermometer "friend" there seems to calm him down. Within 5-10 minutes we're finished getting his tank ready and let him swim back into the water. Within seconds you'd never know he'd been out of the tank. He's swimming around looking for treats - you know blood worms!
