I’m going to be installing a new AMD Athlon 64 FX-60 CPU in my motherboard in the next day or so and I need some assistance regarding preparing the heat sink for applying thermal compound. The heat sink came with a cream colored material already applied and it installed on my current CPU without incident, but it must be removed before applying new thermal compound. I wasn’t able to find any Arctic Silver, which has been recommended here, but did get a Silver Thermal Compound from CompUSA some time ago which has remained unopened since purchase. I found directions for cleaning and installing Arctic Silver to the heat sink, but am not sure how much compound and how to apply it once the heat sink has been thoroughly cleaned with rubbing alcohol. This will be my first experience with applying thermal compound and need some expert instructions. Thanks.

I always use a credit card Bobbo.

after it is installed and you have cleaned the heatsink, put an amount of your thermal compound about the size of a grain of rice on the middle of the top surface of the processor. work it around with the card until you have a very thin, even layer covering the whole surface without anything hanging over the sides that could fall off.

That's the way I do it.

Been there, done that several times. Here is my method, after removing all previous paste or thermal interface tape, clean with alcohol. Apply paste about the size of a grain of rice, use the edge of a credit card to level the paste. Install heat sink and plug in fan to proper connection.

---------------------------------------
edit: day late and dollar short....Horatio beat me again.

LilJoe

You're saying to put the thermal paste on the processor and not the heat sink? I was under the opposite impression. Thanks,.. I'll report back.

yes , on the processor

LilJoe

Got it!

I am on the verge of ordering an FX-60. They are available from ebay and Tiger Direct at reasonable prices, much lower than a few weeks ago when NewEgg discontinued selling them.

Demand is high for the remaining stock.

I Ordered mine from Tiger Direct for $299.99, but I don't see it there anymore. Tracking says mine should arrive tomorrow, 3-7-07. Keeping my fingers crossed that it's what I ordered.

You must have ordered the motherboard combo that expired a few days ago. I had planned to order it but got so busy here that I let it slip my mind.

Not the motherboard combo, just the processor.

Bobbo,

I would rather err on the side of caution.

May I advise you to check whether the use of an alternate thermal voids the CPU warranty? I also seem to remember that Artic Silver was not recommended for AMD CPU's but a ceramic paste.

My input for what it is worth.

Vijay

Thanks for your input, Vijay, the processor is OEM and doesn't come with an HSF with thermal compound as in a retail boxed item. My understanding is that silver thermal compound is more efficient than ceramic paste.

Bobbo,

From the AMD website:

Thermal Interface Materials
Thermal Interface Materials (TIM’s) are highly thermally conductive materials that help transfer heat from one device (typically a source device) to another (typically a HSF).

Whenever two surfaces come into contact with each other, there are microscopic air bubbles between the surfaces. Because air is a poor thermal conductor, filling these bubbles with a highly thermally conductive material will help improve the efficiency of the overall solution.

There are many types of thermal materials, from Phase Change Material (PCM) to thermal tape to thermal grease. Thermal tape is rarely recommended, as it typically is not suited for processor applications. PCM or grease are the more common materials used on modern processors.

Each solution has its advantages and disadvantages. Greases are often more thermally conductive, but they tend to be more difficult to work with and create more mess. Many types of grease are also electrically conductive or capacitive and can short out the processor if they come into contact with any surface mounted components on the processor package. PCM is usually preinstalled but is good only for one use. Once the heatsink is removed after the processor has been powered on, the material needs to be replaced.

Since PCM is usually preinstalled on the heatsink, there is no need to worry about using the proper amount. If a replacement PCM pad is required, it will usually come in a 1x1-inch square pad so, again, the amount has been determined. However, the old pad should be completely removed from the heatsink before the new pad is applied.

When working with thermal greases (or pastes), care should be taken not to use too much. Some people think that if a little is good, then a lot should be great. This is the wrong approach. Too much thermal grease will act as a blanket, trapping heat inside the processor. Use no more than the size of a grain of rice, spread evenly over the center of the heatsink. Again, care should be taken not to get it all over the processor package. The processor could short out if the grease is electrically conductive or capacitive and it gets onto the processor bridges or passive components on the processor package. Likewise, the grease should never come into contact with the processor pins.

Note: PCM is not recommended for AMD Athlon™ 64 or AMD Athlon 64 FX systems due to the strong adhesion created between the processor and the heatsink.


Note: This article says to spread it on the heatsink...!

Vijay

The AMD prohibition for using metallic transfer compounds only applied to the older AMD CPUs that were not enclosed in a metal case. in those devices the actual die was exposed along with other components and connection points. The fear was the paste being sloppily applied and shorting the exposed components. The reason for using a heat transfer medium is that air is a poor conductor of heat.

Any metal encased CPU will be more efficiently cooled with properly applied metallic paste. The key here is "properly applied" If too thickly applied it will actually degrade the cooling effect. The gaps between the CPU and the heatsink surface that must be bridged by the paste are microscopic in size.

Shelly

Thanks Shelly. Here's the instructions included with the Silver Thermal Compound I purchased, and should work:

Instructions:

1. First, you must thoroughly clean the heat sink and CPU core surfaces, making sure that there are no obstructions or foreign materials to interrupt the heat transfer. Start by removing any old thermal pads and compound remnants. Then, using a clean cloth and low residue solvent (rubbing alcohol for instance). Thoroughly clean both mating surfaces. Make sure that the cleaned area is completely clear of everything, even hair, lint, or even oil from fingers. It is imperative to avoid any oil-based cleaners.

2. Apply Silver Thermal Compound to the heat sink where it will mate with the CPU core. To do so, use a clean plastic bag on one finger and rub the compound in. Then clean the surface again using a clean cloth and WITHOUT using any solvent.

3. Next apply a small dollop of the silver compound to the CPU core, where the heat sink will be secured. The dollop should be about 25% the size of a BB.

4. Spread the silver compound evenly over the CPU using a razor blade or the clean edge of a piece of paper only (or credit card per Horatio & LilJoe). Don’t use your fingers!

5.Now install the heat sink. It’s best to follow the manufacturer’s directions supplied with your heat sink. Avoid moving the heat sink around too much after it’s been placed on the CPU core surface.

The precaution applies primarily for the older processors such as the Athlon XP as Shelly describes.

Properly applied, Arctic Silver is fine for the lidded Athlon 64 series including X2, FX, etc.

I believe I may have mentioned that to you in an earlier post from some time back. Since then, I have installed numerous lidded Athlon 64 processors and recommend Arctic Silver over ceramic pastes for those who may frequently remove or switch processors.

It is critical not to use too much. If the entire surface is covered, the resulting vacuum seal is so strong that it may not be possible to remove the heatsink later without ripping the CPU from the socket.

>I believe I may have mentioned that to you in an earlier post
>from some time back. Since then, I have installed numerous
>lidded Athlon 64 processors and recommend Arctic Silver over
>ceramic pastes for those who may frequently remove or switch
>processors.
>
>It is critical not to use too much. If the entire surface is
>covered, the resulting vacuum seal is so strong that it may
>not be possible to remove the heatsink later without ripping
>the CPU from the socket.

Why would it be better to use stuff that might not want to come apart if you frequently tinker or change parts?

Also if Arctic Silver is so great it makes me wonder why ThermalRight and other makers of specialized cooling products ship with the ceramic compound?

Would it not make sense for them to be including something that makes their product shine?

A compound based on metal particles for heat conduction is more efficient than one based upon ceramic particles. The maker of a heatsink can not know exactly what type of device it will be mounted on. Using a ceramic based compound is a hedge against short circuiting devices with exposed connections.

One should never exert excessive force when removing a heatsink. If it seems stubborn, twist the heatsink back and forth slightly parallel to the device to break the bond, or use a little alcohol.

Shelly

Why would it be better to use stuff that might not want to come apart if you frequently tinker or change parts?

It isn't. I think you misunderstood my response.

Any of today's compounds and full surface pads can cause trouble if they cover nearly the full surface of the lid.

With pads or Ceramique applied too liberally, I have found that some heatsinks cannot be easily rotated to break the seal. This occurred with a system I was servicing that used a pre-applied thermal pad. Due to the square shape of the heatsink, there was not enough room to rotate the heatsink more than 3-4 degrees and that was not enough to break the seal. After rotating the heatsink 3-4 degrees for nearly a minute, I gently pulled up from a corner and the CPU was pulled from the socket. Fortunately, the socket and processor were not destroyed. I had to rotate the heatsink +-20 degrees and creep the processor beyond the edge of the heatsink to finally break the seal.

If the socket is not destroyed and the pins not bent, the processor and motherboard can usually be used again after cleanup. The problems I encountered were with Socket 754 processors. So far, I have not had a problem with Socket 939.

The instructions provided with Ceramique state to apply compound to both surfaces whereas Arctic Silver 5 is applied to only one surface. Arctic Silver 5 is only used in a very small amount on the processor and is not as likely to spread to the edges as Arctic Silver Ceramique or other TI material that is also applied to the heatsink surface. Obviously, removal of the excess TI associated with heatsink preparation is critical.

With AS 5, you only need coverage over an area about the size of a nickel after the applied TI material spreads. If that is ensured, then any heatsink should be able to be removed without damage.

Also if Arctic Silver is so great it makes me wonder why ThermalRight and other makers of specialized cooling products ship with the ceramic compound?

The ceramic compounds are ideal for long term use.

Would it not make sense for them to be including something that makes their product shine?

I'm sure they do. Most of their ceramic compounds are nearly as good as Arctic Silver 5. I would not be surprised if they are using Arctic Silver Ceramique repackaged.

Allyn, would it be effective to run the computer for a few minutes to heat the compound so as to make the compound more elastic before separating the heat sink from the processor? Also, should I remove the processor and heat sink together and then separate them?

1)That will help.
2)No there is a locking arm on the processor that you can not get to under the heat sink when it is installed.Allyn described a situation where they came out together and it is not desirable as it will sometimes bend pins etc..I have not been that unlucky yet but have come across a few stubborn ones.

Arctic Silver, Inc. - Instructions
http://www.arcticsilver.com/instructions.htm

Different compounds & different CPU's require different installation techniques.

The last time (some time ago) I had used Arctic Céramique, & it only required placing a small dab of compound directly in the center of my (small square shaped) CPU (core). Spreading across the core was not required, but you did give it a "twist" a couple of times.


For cleaning existing material, I used Goof Off which worked better, easier, IMO, then alcohol (though my alcohol may not have been up to proof ).

Goof Off and Goo Gone leave an oily residue and that's why alcohol should be used to remove residuals.

LilJoe

Why don't more people just use a new stick on heat pad or do they make them. Seems like it would be a lot easier to remove the old one clean the CPU and stick on a new one. When I asked for a new pad at one of the local computer stores, they told me the pad's only come with a new heat sink. I bought some thermal liquid, it was cheaper than a new heat sink.

ed

  

>Why don't more people just use a new stick on heat pad or do
>they make them. Seems like it would be a lot easier to remove
>the old one clean the CPU and stick on a new one. When I asked
>for a new pad at one of the local computer stores, they told
>me the pad's only come with a new heat sink. I bought some
>thermal liquid, it was cheaper than a new heat sink.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that probably they use those to make the potential installation by rookies more idiot proof but from what I read various places they apparently aren't as efficient as using Arctic Silver or such.

In fact I have read various reviews and it would seem that one of the better products is actually Shin Etsu as it outperforms Arctic Silver in tests but that stuff is not easily obtained where I am.

After screwing up my nerve, I was able to install the new AMD 64 FX-60 proc. It seems to be running OK, but a bit hot. See attachments:





There was a bit of lag time while fumbling with the HSF to get it properly seated. Could this be a factor? Do I need to reapply the silver compound?

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

"lag time"


If you mean time between apply the compound & setting the HSF, then I would not think that should be a problem.


"fumbling"


If you applied the compound, placed the CPU down, put the HSF on, then removed or otherwise moved the HSF, then you may have created air pockets. In that case I'd say you should try a second time.

Your temps are high. Verify your temps with what your BIOS shows. Some compounds need time to stabilize, but I would not expect a drop from 60 to 35.

I'd let it run for a little while. Monitor the temps for consistancy, & then just go & try again.

>After screwing up my nerve, I was able to install the new AMD
>64 FX-60 proc. It seems to be running OK, but a bit hot. See
>attachments:
>
>
>
>
>
>There was a bit of lag time while fumbling with the HSF to get
>it properly seated. Could this be a factor? Do I need to
>reapply the silver compound?


Bobbo I definitely would say that's too hot as I have mine overclocked to 2.86Ghz and right now I'm showing 52C core-0 and 50C core-1 with BOINC going full tilt.

It may well be that you need to step it up where the cooler is concerned and I don't know what you are using.

Is the cooler you have acceptable for an FX-60?

If not I have an untouched stock brand new one but I went with ThermalRight SI-128 and a 1200rpm 120mm fan for the quiet.

It's gotten a bit hotter sinc my last post and I'm getting a bit nervous:



I may have been a bit clumsy in seating the HSF and should probably start over. The HSF is fairly large and similar to your ThermalRight SI-128.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

>It's gotten a bit hotter sinc my last post and I'm getting a
>bit nervous:


That's definitely way too hot so shut her down now and try again.

Here's my readings right now under 100% load (which it's always under)..

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

Shut it down now.

What type HS/F do you have?

It's still a bit hot after reinstalling, but running about 10C cooler than my last post.



My HS/F was combo (CPU COOLER|ASUS A CPU COOLER X-MARS) when I ordered my FX-55 single core. I may have to go with somthing with greater capacity.



Could be that I need more experience with applying thermal compound.

In an earlier post I showed my single core temp at 58C.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

That thing isn't going to cut it Bobbo. I'd hate to see you smoke a fine CPU the first day.

Still way warmer than it should be as you can see from my readings and I'm pushing it harder.

I don't know what those SI-128 ThermalRight units go for down there but I love it and the quiet as 1200rpm fan speed is nice. Also those coolers fit various CPU's which is also a plus should a time come that you want to dispose of it or change to something else.

I neglected to ask if those temps are under idle or full load?

Are you running a DC project?

If so you may want to shut it down until you get proper cooling.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

>BTW, Asus Probe shows CPU Threshold at 90C, so I may continue
>to crunch for a while.


IMHO not a good idea.

The threshold you speak of is the outer limits of what the item is designed to do and not an indicator of where it is OK to run it.

Personally I have my threshold set at 65C as it should never really run that hot with proper cooling and most enthusiasts say that running them 24/7 at anything much over the mid 50's is pushing it and will shorten the life of the CPU which I'm not anxious to do.

You are running stock speed and should never be near that kind of temp.

"That thing isn't going to cut it"

What is it that makes you think that that HSF is not sufficient?


This review (FWIW) put it this way ...

"The Asus X-Mars is better than the cooler you get with retail AMD processors, but it’s not as good as the competition."
http://www.trustedreviews.com/peripherals/review/2005/12/24/AMD-CPU-Cooler-Roundup/p4

So if its better then stock, then is that to say that a stock AMD HSF is going to reach the same temps, or higher, as bobbo is seeing when run WFO?

>"That thing isn't going to cut it"
>
>What is it that makes you think that that HSF is not
>sufficient?
>
>
>This review (FWIW) put it this way ...
>
>"The Asus X-Mars is better than the cooler you get with retail
>AMD processors, but it’s not as good as the competition."
>http://www.trustedreviews.com/peripherals/review/2005/12/24/AMD-CPU-Cooler-Roundup/p4
>
>So if its better then stock, then is that to say that a stock
>AMD HSF is going to reach the same temps, or higher, as bobbo
>is seeing when run WFO?


Duh because his temps are ridiculous perhaps.

Do you have an FX-60 or are you just sticking your nose in for something to do?

Bobbo runs DC projects so his unit is under constant load which also keeps stock HSF stuff somewhat taxed.

I have one and as you can clearly see from my posts the temps should be way lower.

Yes, I understand that something is wrong.
Yes, I understand that your temps are far lower running the same kind of load.

Was just wondering if it was something specific that is pointing you to the HSF (aside from the high temps).

Bobbo, please check the actual core voltage with Asus Probe. The core voltage for that CPU is 1.30 to 1.35 volts. Make certain it is within that range The maximum safe temperature for that CPU is 65C. It is a hot running chip dissipating 110 watts. For this reason the core voltage is very important.

Shelly

Shelly, VCore voltage is configured in the BIOS 1.39V, however I think it can be set in the Overclocking settings in the BIOS. I'm going there now.

That is probably the cause of your high temps.

Shelly

Shelly, is the Vcore voltage the same as BIOS settings for CPU voltage? There is a series of manual selections for CPU voltage in the Overclock section of the BIOS ranging from 0.800V to 1.650V. Can these be used to reset the core voltage? I'm not going to mess with these until I'm rock sure that they are what I need to change.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

Bobbo,

vCore=CPU voltage. You should check to see what the factory setting is for vCore for your CPU and then set it accordingly in the section of the BIOS you showed.

Jeff
simul iustus et peccator

Were you o/clocking the previous processor?

Are you running any Asus utilties such as AiBooster?

When you separated the heatsink before cleanup and reinstall, how large was the circle of TI material. Describe it reference quarter, nickel, etc.

Do you have any custom speed controls for the fan?

What about fan speed control within the BIOS?

Bob, please refresh my memory about your motherboard brand, model, etc.

BTW, you are probably correct that you may need a better cooling solution.

>Are you running any Asus utilties such as AiBooster?

Not that I know of.

>When you separated the heat sink before cleanup and reinstall, how large was the circle of TI material. Describe it reference quarter, nickel, etc.

I think about a quarter, but square and relatively thick; actually, it looked like it covered the entire surface of the CPU. I'm thinking that I may have spread the silver compound a little too thin. I would like to know what compound Spezi used, so as to achieve the low temps he is displaying. I may just drop the silver and go to something like what was originally applied to the HS/F.

>Do you have any custom speed controls for the fan?

No.

>What about fan speed control within the BIOS?

I don't think so,I'll check, but the fans seem to be running well, CPU at 2,136 and Chassis at 3,068 per PC Probe II.

>Bob, please refresh my memory about your motherboard brand,model, etc.

It's an Asus A8N5X.

Thee is nothingwrong with your Heatsink/fan. A tiny overvoltage to the CPU core will result in large heat increases. Higher voltages are only needed for extreme overclocking, and will require more efficient cooling solutions. Set your voltage to 1.30 and leave it there unless you experience unstability. edge the voltage uo the slallest fractin higher if it is unstable. Your current 1.39 volts is too high for that CPU at stock speed.

Shelly

I'm off to the BIOS to set CPU voltage for 1.30. I wonder why that setting is in the Overclocking area???

I would never trust automatic settings, alhough some board/CPU combinations exhibit instability that can be cured with slightly higher core settings. Since your CPU is built with 90nm process and dissipates 110 watts, you want to be careful about high core settings. your maximum safe core temperature is 65C, and you are already at that temp range. Not good! You want to drop that about 10C at full CPU load. Set your Temp warning no higher than 60C.

Shelly

I changed the BIOS setting to 1.30 which translated to 1.34 with PC Probe II. I then dropped it down to 1.75 which translated to 1.31 per PC Probe. I will drop it one more notch and see what happens.

The processor is still running too hot despite the lowering of CPU voltage, which means that I need to reapply the thermal compound.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

What temperature is showing in BIOS?

BIO temp was 46C, but that was not under a full load. Running full load i.e. with BOINC, the temps still too high and are as shown below:

I had reset the CPU voltage to 1.25 which shows as 1.28 with Probe, the increments being 0.25 up or down. Probe shows CPU temp at 55C (isn't that reading from the BIOS?). I probably need to reapply thermal compound until I get it right

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

Post back with the new temps after you set the voltage.

I'm interested in your results since I will be ordering an FX-60 within a couple of days.

Please post your temps, etc. after you install the FX-60. Where are you getting the FX-60 from?

eBay for an OEM. I've been tracking some sales and sellers. Some prices are not far from what you paid.

If I had not fallen asleep early two nights ago, I would already have one on the way.

Alright now to add to the mix first off some motherboards required bios updates to run the FX-60.

Also the stock core voltage is 1.3 but I will also add that I have one of those things and I upped the core voltage to 1.47 and under full load still didn't pass 60C for temps (have never gotten anywhere near Bobbos temps) although I chose to back off as I don't want to run my CPU any warmer than 55C under full load.

That brings me back to either the motherboard needs a BIOS update badly or the cooler is simply not sufficient.

Even if the core voltage was over 1.45 which apparently it's not it should not have gotten anywhere near the temps it was displaying.

What also stands out to me is that in an earlier post Bobbo shows core temp displaying idle temps at around 39C which is actually close to where they should be again suggesting that once the processors are under full load the cooling is lacking.

Also stands to reason that what worked on a single core FX-55 may well not cut it for a dual core FX-60.

Here's a chart of specs and max temps Bobbo that you may want to keep around. It's from the AMD site.



Bobbo as far as the Asus Probe goes it reads one of the CPU cores if you want to test that theory compare it's reading with those of Core Temp.

Here's another screenshot showing my voltage and operating Mhz.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

Thanks for that good information, Spezi. I really think my HS/F is adequate for the job. I also think that I didn't properly apply the silver thermal compound. What did you use between your HS/F and CPU,.. I want to use the same.

>Thanks for that good information, Spezi. I really think my
>HS/F is adequate for the job. I also think that I didn't
>properly apply the silver thermal compound. What did you use
>between your HS/F and CPU,.. I want to use the same.

Ironically enough I'm using the ceramic paste (white stuff) which came with my SI-128 from ThermalRight.

I have some Arctic Silver 5 on its way simply to try it and see if it lives up to all the hype.

I'm no tech Bobbo but at this stage I feel that your voltage should not be creating the extreme types of temperature you were getting and unless your thermal paste has somehow gotten too old to use I can't see you being able to put the item in in such a way as to be so wrong to cause such a problem. I mean you basically plant the HSF and attach the clips.

That once again brings me back to the only remaining item that being the HSF itself.

The way your load temps skyrocket it's almost as if there's no CPU fan attached since idle temps seem not too bad.

I'm not suggesting you must go out and buy a better HSF but were it mine and knowing that it's going to crunch 24/7 I'd just feel better knowing that cooling is adequate and allows for a bit of headroom between normal load temps and the threshold.

As Allyn says we are talking about running two of what you had before and BOINC does utilize both cores so heat created will definitely be more than what that HSF was used to.

Also stands to reason that what worked on a single core FX-55 may well not cut it for a dual core FX-60.

That concerns me, too. The FX-60 is two FX-55's side by side. Reviews of the X-Mars (well down the list for overclockers) suggests that it may not be the ideal choice for the dual-core FX-60 under load. Also, a slightly larger amount of TI may be needed for the larger size of the CPU cores under the lid. I would want the "spread" to be the size of a quarter.

I found an interesting link: http://www.overclockers.com/articles938/
which confirmed that the product I used, CompUSA Silver Thermal Compound which claims 85% to 90% silver compound by weight, actually had NO silver at all. It had aluminum.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

I have on rare occasions seen heatsinks that had a mating surface that was not ground flat, or had even warped. Your heatsink appears to be copper, which is the best metal for heat transfer. If we assume that touare using properly applied thermal compound, and BTW aluminum is not that much less effective than silver, then the only possible reason for poor colling is that the surface of the heatsink is not in intimate contact with the surface of the CPU, either because of a non flat surface, or because you did not mount the heatsink flush against the CPU. It could be a nearby capactor or something else holding the heatsink away.

Shelly

I just had some time so out of curiosity sake I dug up my FX-60 box as I purchased it retail box and still have the HSF untouched.

I looked at it and then went back to note what Bobbo has for a cooling unit then went and read a review on it.

What I noticed right away upon careful examination is that the factory supplied HSF is a heatpipe style with a fan attached BUT it is at least the size of what Bobbo's is and most notably it has 4 heatpipes where Bobbo's has two.

Based on that I'm back to feeling pretty confident that the thing just doesn't have enough umph for a dual core FX-60 running BOINC.

It's specs say it is suitable for AMD64's but that doesn't necessarily mean ALL of them.

I may not be a tech and freely admit that, however, I would never install less of a cooling solution than what the factory provides with the product on the assumption that they should know better what it needs than us.

This is a picture of the unit that shipped with my CPU (on the left) and I also notice that they are being used for FX-70 Quad Cores.

Notice the four heatpipes (two loops on each side of the HSF)

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

The heatsink Bobbo shows in his post #31, and the two heatsinks in your post all have two copper heat pipes not four. each of the heat pipes is a continuous loop through the heatsink the purpose of which is to draw heat from the bottom near the CPU, to the top, near the fan. they are most important in your two heatsinks which have aluminum fins, than on Bobbo's heatsink which appears to be made entirely of copper including the fins. Copper, if my memory is working, is about 20% more efficient conducting heat than aluminum, although both metals do a good job. From what I can see of the three, and I enlarged the images 200%, all three are about equally effective, the two you show, have a larger total fin area, but that is offset by the smaller copper fin's higher thermal conductance. The one thing I can't tell from the photos is the cubic volume of air moved by each fan. I think all three if properly installed would handle the CPU

Shelly

The ASUS A CPU COOLER X-MARSH I purchased with the FX-55 came with a cream colored thermal pad on the plate which may be more efficient than the "Silver" compound I purchased from CompUSA. I may try Arctic Silver Ceramique Thermal Compound to see if I can get a better bond. If that doesn't work I will have to go with Spezi's suggestion. Right now, my core temps are 54C & 57C with the window open.

I would haveopted for the phase chasnge thermal pad. Copper is soft, did you create any scratches removing the pad?

Shelly

There a some very minor abrasions, but not in the area of the processor. I need to find a source for a phase change thermal pad.

Nightly Reader

I've been thinking about why the core voltage have been high.

Did you uninstall the AMD processor driver before removing the previous CPU? It would be easy to forget or not consider.

My thinking is that like replacing a video card, drivers should be uninstalled so that the new card can be properly configured when software is reinstalled.

When my FX-60 arrives, I will completely uninstall all processor related Asus and AMD utilities before swapping CPUs. After checking temps in BIOS, I will then install the AMD processor driver and go from there.

Prices are bidding up on the FX-60 at eBay. The one I missed went for $320 a couple of days ago and they're now back up to nearly $350.

Last night, I couldn't get online because of DST trouble with my ISP. They've been up and down for the past twenty four hours trying to solve a glitch between their server software and the AT&T connection to the Internet.

>The heatsink Bobbo shows in his post #31, and the two
>heatsinks in your post all have two copper heat pipes not
>four. each of the heat pipes is a continuous loop through the
>heatsink the purpose of which is to draw heat from the bottom
>near the CPU, to the top, near the fan. they are most
>important in your two heatsinks which have aluminum fins, than
>on Bobbo's heatsink which appears to be made entirely of
>copper including the fins. Copper, if my memory is working,
>is about 20% more efficient conducting heat than aluminum,
>although both metals do a good job. From what I can see of
>the three, and I enlarged the images 200%, all three are about
>equally effective, the two you show, have a larger total fin
>area, but that is offset by the smaller copper fin's higher
>thermal conductance. The one thing I can't tell from the
>photos is the cubic volume of air moved by each fan. I think
>all three if properly installed would handle the CPU

Sorry Shelly but you are mistaken.

Look at Bobbo's here in this Asus X-Mars review and you can see from the various pics that said heatsink has two tubes that loop out at one end. They begin close together at the bottom center attached to the copper plate and terminate in little tips at the top spaced wider apart.

I just went and grabbed mine again and holding it here in my hand it has eight copper ends/tips that have been closed ergo four heatpipes versus two.

I just looked up the part number written on my heatsink and the exact part is shown here as well as exact specification clearly showing it to be a Quad pipe cooler.

You can also see that Bobbo's only has two loops out one side whereas mine has two loops on each end and slightly offset from those on the opposing side.

I found the specifications for the Asus X-Mars here clearly showing it to be a dual pipe only.

Makes all the difference in the world.

Spezi, your link to the Asus X-Mars is a great source for cooler selections and specs. My Asus X-Mars is working, but not providing the cooling required. I'll try a different interfacing compound, but in the iterim I'm going look for a better product. The feature I like about the Asus X-Mars is the clamping device and hope to find a cooler with a similar one.

Edit: I just found the extra thermal grease that came with my X-Mars, and will try it. I also found a site that has directions for applying the thermal grease, which directs one to put it directly on the processor. I thought it should go on the HS/F plate. http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimage.php?image=2967

>Spezi, your link to the Asus X-Mars is a great source for
>cooler selections and specs. My Asus X-Mars is working, but
>not providing the cooling required. I'll try a different
>interfacing compound, but in the iterim I'm going look for a
>better product. The feature I like about the Asus X-Mars is
>the clamping device and hope to find a cooler with a similar
>one.

For what it's worth Bobbo of the cooling solutions I noticed on that site I personally use XP-120's as well as the SI-120 or SI-128 from ThermalRight. I went with the SI-128 last time because my supplier did not carry the others any more and it was the latest and greatest.

I will add too though that for ease of installation I can't possibly think of anything better than the Stock AMD Foxconn that comes with the FX-60 as all you do is set it on making sure the pegs are engaged and flip the lever to locked position. The picture in the link below doesn't do it justice as you can't see the lever which is on the other side. No tools needed at all just clip on and lock, plug in power and done.

If you aren't going to overclock the stock cooler would more than do the job for you as I have read many reviews and articles while familiarizing myself with this CPU and a number of places have pushed the unit up to 2.8Ghz in testing using the stock unit with good results.

I believe the stock cooler is available for $19.99 in the link I have provided. AMD Foxconn HSF

For what it's worth I've put in a fair bit of time reading and going over the posts and I honestly think that you may as well not worry about reapplying the paste as the shortfall here is the Asus Mars itself and although you may improve temps a tiny bit by experimenting with the paste it is not going to cure the overall problem which is an unsuitable HSF so you'll just waste your time and risk a mishap with all the removing and reinstalling.

Whatever you decide just please shut it down if temps go over 60C as it just is not normal and I'd really hate to see you fry a brand new CPU.

I just got back from CompUSA for a business closing sale. I wish I had read your last post before going re the stock cooler, but I did purchase a CoolerMaster Hyper 48 at 30% off (retail $59.99), which has 4 heat pipes plus copper fins and base. As to ease of installation, this one is going to be more of a bear than I care to experience. It is compatible with socket 939 well as 4 other types with adapters to match. The directions are meagre at best, so I expect it will take me a while to get it installed.

See: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article196-page1.html

>I just got back from CompUSA for a business closing sale. I
>wish I had read your last post before going re the stock
>cooler, but I did purchase a CoolerMaster Hyper 48 at 30% off
>(retail $59.99), which has 4 heat pipes plus copper fins and
>base. As to ease of installation, this one is going to be
>more of a bear than I care to experience. It is compatible
>with socket 939 well as 4 other types with adapters to match.
>The directions are meagre at best, so I expect it will take me
>a while to get it installed.
>

I think that should meet your needs.

From what I can see it only requires that you swap the retention bracket which only requires removing two screws but best to double check using your installation instruction sheet.

Just take your time and when you fire it up monitor temp right away and make sure it doesn't climb past 60C and shut it down immediately if it does.

I'm thinking you'll see far more normal readings now.

I'm not so sure about this one, Spezi, it says to attach the retention bracket on the BACK of the motherboard. That means that I will have to essentially disassemble my computer. There are some other factors that bother me quite a bit, i.e. it exceeds the weight limitations specified by AMD by DOUBLE. I

“The Hyper 48 is still a boat anchor much like its brethren, tipping the scales at a whopping 864 grams, but certainly not in the same league as the 1.1 kg Hyper 6, which actually broke some reviewers' motherboards during testing. The Hyper 48 is still nearly double the maximum 450 gram recommended HSF weight by Intel and AMD, so care is needed during installation. Do avoid transporting a motherboard or PC with the Hyper 48 mounted.“

It does look like I may have bought a boat anchor. I'm going to set aside for the time being and take another look at the AMD stock HS/F you linked. In the mean time, I will shut BOINC down during the day and run it at night when things are cooler. With BOINC sleeping, my core temps are 30C and 35C respectively.

Just ordered the stock HS/F. The CoolerMaster will grace my computer shelf in plain view as a constant reminder that I should do my research BEFORE making a purchase. Maybe, sometime in the future I will offer the CoolerMaster as a prize here at PCQandA.

The stock cooler arrived and has been installed. Temps are about 8C - 10C cooler than with the Asus X-Mars. Not great, but a lot better than before. I still expect to have to shut down BOINC when summer weather reaches the 90's.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

>The stock cooler arrived and has been installed. Temps are
>about 8C - 10C cooler than with the Asus X-Mars. Not great,
>but a lot better than before. I still expect to have to shut
>down BOINC when summer weather reaches the 90's.


If that temp is with the CPU's fully loaded you are well within safe limits now and what I'd call normal since you are using a stock cooler.

I'm always right around 50C with peaks around 54C depending on ambient room temperature but that's with a 10% overclock and a larger cooler.

BTW did you find it easy to install?

Any time Bobbo. Glad you got it all sorted.

BTW here's my Lincoln headers installed as Lil'Joe called my Cooler Master GeminII beast.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

So how are the temps?How do you change your ram?Looks a little tricky.

>So how are the temps?How do you change your ram?Looks a
>little tricky.

Early indications are I will get the extra 5C of cooling I was after as I temporarily set it to 3Ghz and with BOINC running it was showing 56C on one core and 51C on the other.

I had to RMA my A8N32 SLI board though (some glitch from day one and NCIX agreed to send me a new one) and this A8N SLI runs a bit hotter so for a more accurate comparison I'll wait until I get the other one back again.

At this time I have the speed set back to the 2860Mhz that I've been running at and my temps are consistently 3C lower so it's not a big change but it could take the thermal paste a bit of time to settle in too.

Changing the RAM isn't that bad as there is enough room to reach under and if necessary 4 little screws will allow you to pop off the two fans.

Installation was pretty straight forward but there is no way to get around having to completely remove the motherboard as the stock backing plate has to be removed and fastening nuts are tightened on the back.

My Arctic Silver 5 hasn't arrived yet either so I used the stuff cooler master supplies with the unit but I don't know what it is although it is grey and could perhaps be rebranded AS.

When I get my board back and the AS5 I'll post the temps as compared to my ThermalRight SI-128.

From what I can see though the SI-128 is much more compact but seems to do just about as good as the Gemin II and with just one fan is quieter as well.

I've had a chance to compare and although the SI-128 has only four heatpipes the diameter of the tubes is larger than the ones used on the Gemin II which has six.

Another thing I need to play with is the fan location and directions.

There is now a 120mm case fan exhausting out the back. Another draws in from the side panel blowing onto the PCI slot area. Then you have the two blowing onto the heatpipe and the Tagan uses a 120mm fan as well.

I'm actually thinking of trying to turn around the fan on the side panel to see how that affects temps.

>I'm not so sure about this one, Spezi, it says to attach the
>retention bracket on the BACK of the motherboard. That means
>that I will have to essentially disassemble my computer.
>There are some other factors that bother me quite a bit, i.e.
>it exceeds the weight limitations specified by AMD by DOUBLE.
>I

>
>It does look like I may have bought a boat anchor. I'm
>going to set aside for the time being and take another look at
>the AMD stock HS/F you linked. In the mean time, I will shut
>BOINC down during the day and run it at night when things are
>cooler. With BOINC sleeping, my core temps are 30C and 35C
>respectively.

I sense some trepidation and there's nothing wrong with that.

Always better to not tackle something one is uncomfortable with.

That unit is heavy when compared to my SI-128 which weighs in at 510g and I did notice a caution about not transporting the computer with said HSF attached.

I really do think that in your case the stock unit would be best as it will more than meet your needs and is a piece of cake to install.

Too bad you aren't close by as I could hand you one.

My ASUS boards have a pretty hefty steel backing plate on the motherboard already so in my case I think all I'd have to do is remove the two retention bracket screws and switch the bracket which wouldn't be so bad but if you do need to get at the back you'd have to pretty much remove the motherboard out of the case meaning a lot more work.

I'll be facing that challenge next week as I'm stepping up my cooling to one of the latest CoolerMaster offerings that does require me to get at the back of the board.

Check this baby (that takes two 120mm fans) out.



One thing I learned messing with hot rods is if you need to cool it theres no substitute for surface area to aim fans at.

I'm going to run the baby with a 15 multiplier to get 3Ghz and it's going to run cool.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

>>I'm not so sure about this one, Spezi, it says to attach
>the
>>retention bracket on the BACK of the motherboard. That
>means
>>that I will have to essentially disassemble my computer.
>>There are some other factors that bother me quite a bit,
>i.e.
>>it exceeds the weight limitations specified by AMD by DOUBLE.
>
>>I
>
>>
>>It does look like I may have bought a boat anchor. I'm
>>going to set aside for the time being and take another look
>at
>>the AMD stock HS/F you linked. In the mean time, I will
>shut
>>BOINC down during the day and run it at night when things
>are
>>cooler. With BOINC sleeping, my core temps are 30C and 35C
>>respectively.
>
>I sense some trepidation and there's nothing wrong with that.
>
>Always better to not tackle something one is uncomfortable
>with.
>
>That unit is heavy when compared to my SI-128 which weighs in
>at 510g and I did notice a caution about not transporting the
>computer with said HSF attached.
>
>I really do think that in your case the stock unit would be
>best as it will more than meet your needs and is a piece of
>cake to install.
>
>Too bad you aren't close by as I could hand you one.
>
>My ASUS boards have a pretty hefty steel backing plate on the
>motherboard already so in my case I think all I'd have to do
>is remove the two retention bracket screws and switch the
>bracket which wouldn't be so bad but if you do need to get at
>the back you'd have to pretty much remove the motherboard out
>of the case meaning a lot more work.
>
>I'll be facing that challenge next week as I'm stepping up my
>cooling to one of the latest CoolerMaster offerings that does
>require me to get at the back of the board.
>
>Check this baby (that takes two 120mm fans) out.
>
>
>
>
Reminds me of an old V-12 Lincoln. What a set of headers

LilJoe

>Reminds me of an old V-12 Lincoln. What a set of
>headers



My first thoughts too.

I walked into my whole sale PC parts place yesterday and he was just taking one of these out of the box so naturally I decided I had to have one so he's getting me one next week.

I'm determined to run at 3Ghz but the whole thought of water cooling makes me nervous and I've read so many reviews lately that I've noticed some water setups aren't really any better than a good heatpipe anyway.

This thing gives me more area than what I have with the SI-128 as well as adding two more heatpipes so it should more than get me the additional 5C minimum of added cooling that I'm after.

Plus it still won't be noisy as the 120mm fans are not all that noticeable when in the 1200rpm range.

Then I can move my existing SI-128 over to my 4400 X2 machine and crank it up another notch safely.